Psychology

#48: Intentional Life Design and How to Overcome the Four Horsemen of Fear with Corey Wilks, Psy.D.

Hosted by Josh Gonsalves
4.25.2022
2 HR 22 MIN
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Episode Description

Dr. Corey Wilks is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and Executive Coach. He writes about the psychology of business, performance, creativity, and fulfillment. His mission is to help entrepreneurs build an Intentional Life by doing meaningful, purpose-driven work that fulfills them.

In this conversation with Josh they discuss Corey’s transition from being a Clinical Psychologist to becoming an Executive Coach and Entrepreneur, Corey’s coaching framework on how to build an Intentional Life, how to overcome the four horsemen of fear and beat procrastination, and much more.

Learn about Dr. Corey Wilks’ Intentional Life Design course: https://coreywilkspsyd.podia.com/intentional-life-design

It’s a course designed to help you get hyper clear on what you want, overcome what’s standing in your way, and make it a reality.

Connect with Corey Wilks, Psy.D.

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  • 00:00:00 — Intro
  • 00:00:36 — Conversation begins
  • 00:01:25 — what is the difference between a therapist and a coach?
  • 00:03:58 — Why most coaches are full of shit
  • 00:09:28 — Mind Meld with James Jani
  • 00:09:31 — James Jani YouTube documentary exposing fake gurus
  • 00:13:58 — Addiction
  • 00:20:00 — Functional analysis
  • 00:21:18 — The Matrix Resurrections movie
  • 00:25:46 — Why did Corey want to become a therapist?
  • 00:30:44 — Why did Corey make the jump to becoming a coach?
  • 00:38:20 — The way therapy licenses work in America
  • 00:43:41 — How Corey works with his clients
  • 00:47:29 — Scaling his coaching business with cohort-based course
  • 00:49:13 — Corey’s coaching framework
  • 00:53:01 — How to discover your core value
  • 00:57:54 — Disney’s Soul movie
  • 01:05:00 — WeCrashed on Apple TV+ they story of WeWork
  • 01:01:08 — Eudaimonia
  • 01:12:24 — The GOLD Framework
  • 01:26:11 — The Four Horsemen of Fear
  • 01:36:56 — How to overcome fear
  • 01:37:39 — Free Solo documentary
  • 01:41:37 — The difference between fear and danger
  • 01:44:30 — Fear inoculation
  • 01:47:30 — How Corey almost died
  • 01:48:52 — Corey’s deathbed thought experiment
  • 01:52:31 — Intentional Life Design course
  • 02:07:45 — Micro course on clarifying your core value
  • 02:12:40 — The biggest opportunity in the coaching space right now
  • 02:17:25 — What is Corey excited about coming up
  • 02:18:48 — Conversation ends

[00:00:00] Corey: I do what I do, because it's all about like, we're all going to die one day. And that isn't meant to be like depressing or, or, you know, morbid or anything it's meant to be like, look. This should a lot of fire under your ass to do shit that is worth doing, to overcome fear, to think bigger, to do work that fucking matters. Because at some point we're all going to be on our death bed looking back at our life. Some of us are gonna look back with regret. Some of us are gonna look back and be fucking proud and content because we know that we built a legacy and did work that mattered throughout our life.

[00:00:32] Josh: hello friend, I'm Josh Gonsalves and welcome to Mind Meld. This is a podcast where I have in-depth conversations with some of the brightest people in the known universe. My aim is to spark deep conversations around interesting topics to find the tools, tactics, and philosophies that we can all use in our daily and creative lives.

[00:00:58] In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Corey Wilkes. He's a licensed clinical psychologist and executive coach. He's coached some extremely influential people, including one of my favorite YouTubers. Ali Abdaal.

[00:01:11] Corey writes online about the psychology of business, performance, creativity and fulfillment. His mission is to help entrepreneurs build an intentional life by doing meaningful purpose driven work that fulfills them.

[00:01:23] In this conversation, Corey and I discuss a lot of different topics, including his transition from being a clinical psychologist, to becoming an executive coach and an entrepreneur. And we talk about the whole fake guru thing and how he's trying to bring legitimacy to this industry.

[00:01:37] Corey also walks us through his coaching framework on how to build an intentional life. And it's what he calls the gold framework, G O L D framework.

[00:01:45] We also talk about how to overcome the four horsemen of fear, which is basically the four most common types of fear, and how to beat procrastination.

[00:01:53] This podcast covers many different topics, but trust me, it's a practical conversation from a very practical perspective, so I hope that you get something out of it.

[00:02:02] If you get something out of this conversation and you like what you hear, you can learn more about Corey's methods in his new intentional life design course. It's a cohort based course designed to help you get hyper clear on what you want, overcome what standing in your way and make it a reality. The link to this course is in the description of this podcast. If you want to check it out.

[00:02:21] And if you found this podcast helpful or interesting, please share it with your friends, family members, colleagues, or anyone you think needs to hear this. And if you haven't already please subscribe to the podcast. You can subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube so you can get notified when I publish new episodes.

[00:02:37] And if you want to get direct links to the resources or things that we mentioned this podcast, you can find everything in the show notes for this episode. You could find the link to the show notes in the description of this podcast, or go directly to Mind Meld dot FM.

[00:02:50] That's M I N D M E L D.fm.

[00:02:54] I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's get right into it. I'm Josh Gonsalves and this is Mind Meld with Dr. Corey Wilkes.

[00:03:06] Corey, welcome to Mind Meld, man. I'm super excited to do this with

[00:03:10] Corey: Likewise.

[00:03:11] Josh: I think we talked about this before. We did a little intro call for people listening, like just to kind of get acquainted. And there's so many amazing people that I've met on Twitter and you are one of those people are just like, holy shit, you need to be on this podcast just because of the nature of the things I like to talk about and the things that you've been putting out.

[00:03:26] But what I really want to start off here, man, is just like, you were a therapist, right? You were a licensed psychologist, turned into a coach. And I think this is where we're going to have a really interesting conversation.

[00:03:40] Obviously you have some really, really interesting tools, techniques, and strategies to help entrepreneurs. But I think we're gonna have a really interesting conversation about where this industry is going and how you've changed. So, I think you know where this is going. I need to ask you, first of all, what is the difference between a therapist and a coach?

[00:03:58] I'm sure you're getting this all the time, going from one to the other. What is the difference?

[00:04:02] Corey: I would mostly talk about it from an America perspective. The reason for that is insurance companies kind of rule all in America. So I can't speak, you know, to, to Canada and other countries, but that is a major distinction between therapy and coaching. so brief background with me.

[00:04:20] So I mostly worked when I did therapy. I worked in rural Appalachia. And I mostly worked with people who were under-insured or didn't have insurance, or had like Medicaid, which is like free insurance. Um, and again, other countries are like, oh, that's normal. Not in America means you're super poor. And, doing therapy is difficult because insurance companies will only cover certain diagnoses for a certain amount of time.

[00:04:49] Okay. So what that means is if you come into therapy for like depression or anxiety or something else, insurance companies will basically say, okay, as long as you you're depressed enough, we'll keep paying for it enough in air quotes. So as you go to therapy over time, you tend to get better. Well, once you become what's called subclinical, meaning you no longer warrant a diagnosis of like major depressive disorder, single episode, mild, or something like that.

[00:05:21] Answer's company say, Hey, maybe you're still depressed, but because you're not depressed enough, we're going to quit paying for you to go to therapy. and if that person can't afford therapy, they just kind of get dropped. so doing therapy, I was only allowed to help people just survive, like to barely keep their head above water.

[00:05:39] And as soon as they were kind of treading water, a lot of times you're kind of required to drop them, right. If they can't pay out of pocket. and if you want to do it legally, cause like you could, like, you could like say they have something they don't to like get insurance to keep paying, but you could lose your license and get sued for malpractice, you know, all the cash shit.

[00:06:00] So that's, so that's part of what therapy with coaching. It's more focused on helping people who are already relatively normal functioning do more. So like optimize, thrive, flourish, those kinds of words.

[00:06:14] So that's usually the main distinction between the two is therapy is about helping you go from dysfunction to functioning. And coaching is about taking somebody who already functions pretty well and helping them kind of optimize.

[00:06:27] Okay. Now, as far as the difference between being a therapist and being a coach, a lot of coaches actually practice therapy without a license, but they don't know enough to even know that they're fucking up. So if you ever hear somebody call themselves like an addiction coach, an ADHD coach, some other kind of clinical diagnosis and coach they're full of shit. because they're, they're literally practicing therapy without a license because they're addressing something that is considered pathology, meaning a diagnosis.

[00:06:58] Okay. In order to become a therapist, you have to go through specific training. So like for me, I got a doctorate in clinical psychology, which required a lot of practicums, which are like part-time internships, a lot of coursework, a lot of working with real people with real problems under the supervision of a licensed professional.

[00:07:16] Um, I had to go through an internship for a full year. I had to do like a post-doc. So like a post-doctoral study. After I graduated, I had to study for a licensure exam. They were both like written and oral components to it. So there are a lot of competency and just like proficiency gateways, you have to get through until I finally became licensed and could practice on my own.

[00:07:43] So there's, there are a lot of requirements to be at their. And there are different types of therapists, like almost psychologists. Um, you can be like a counselor, a social worker. There are other ways of, so therapist is like a catch all. It's like an umbrella term. Um, different people from different professions can do therapy, but any motherfucker can call themselves a coach.

[00:08:02] Like coaching is unregulated. Like you can be 15 years old and no fucking life experience starting Instagram and put hashtag life coach and your fucking profile. Nobody

[00:08:13] Josh: Tik TOK life coach.

[00:08:14] Corey: Take time. Yeah. Like fucking it's it's, it's the whole thing. Right. So, but that brings up a good point because, so for a long time, all through grad school, we kind of talked shit about life coaches, right?

[00:08:25] Because life coaches, there's no requirement to be a life coach. There's just there isn't because there's, there's no like overarching body of, of the, of the coaching world. There are different programs that certify you, but they don't make rules. So like, if I try to do therapy, there are like licensing boards that would like Sue me if I did something wrong or made a claim that was just out there, that kind of thing.

[00:08:51] Like they will go after you coaching doesn't have that. So all through school, We were just like, look like we're not life coaches. Like we're way better than that. We're way more qualified when we're trained also the shifts, which is true, but also kind of elitist like th there was it, it caused issues for me now, because when I decided to go into coaching beforehand, I was like, I've got all this, you know, internalized stigma about coaching.

[00:09:15] I don't want to call myself a coach. Like I'm, I'm too qualified to be a coach. But then I read an article by the American psychological association, the APA and there. And it was basically saying like, Hey look, the coaching field is unregulated. So psychologists and other mental health professionals are at an advantage if they join this discipline because we can collectively raise the quality of it.

[00:09:40] If we bring our training into it. And one of the people interviewed in the article was a psychologist and he actually, um, his name's Dr. Jeffrey Arbok, he runs the college of executive coaching, and it's essentially a program developed by psychologists for mental health and other like graduate degree holders who want to transition into like executive coaching, like personal executive coaching, personal coaching is pretty much just what they call life coaching.

[00:10:14] Um, and that it's more the individual and not necessarily related to business. Whereas executive coaching is much more like entrepreneurs. so I ended up looking into his program through that article and, I took it, I went through, you know, the first two phases of the program became a certified professional coach is like the technical credential I have on top of my other shit.

[00:10:36] so now do executive coaching. but yeah, coaching is sort of the wild west right now because you have like, oh, I'm a habits coach. I'm a mindset coach. None of those are real fucking terms. Like those are literally just, you just make up shit. so I, I am still a licensed clinical psychologist, meaning I have maintained my license, even though I don't do therapy anymore.

[00:10:58] In part of the reason for that is technically because of some bullshit board of psychologists rule, I cannot call myself a psychologist unless I hold an active license. So I can literally say I have a doctorate in clinical psychology, but I cannot legally call myself a fucking clinical psychologist unless I have an active license.

[00:11:19] That's like one of those like devil in the details, like if you read the fucking bylaws, like, Hey, you, you have to do this in order to call yourself this that's really the main reason I maintain my license is just so I can just be like, yeah, I'm a psychologist. It just, it makes it easier.

[00:11:33] Josh: Damn. Okay. So this is the perfect introduction to kind of what you're doing. I mean, there's a whole other story about your transition to this, which I would definitely like to get into. Cause it definitely leads right into what you're doing and the people that you're helping now, because you were on that journey, which is really cool. We'll get into that.

[00:11:49] But this is where I find this conversation getting really interesting is because like exactly what you said, these coaches, these online gurus it's total fucking bullshit. I actually did another episode with this guy, James Janney. I don't know if you've seen his documentaries come up on YouTube, but he has all these like, um, documentaries kind of exposing fake gurus, like the dark world of like online gurus.

[00:12:09] I think you'd absolutely love it. And just the way he talks about it, anyone listening, listening, I'll link to the podcast as well with this conversation, the near, um, we really get into this. And so where you really caught my eye, where we first started chatting was exactly what you just described. Like you are a registered psychologist, like you have gone through the training, you've gone through school, you have a doctorate for fucking Christ sakes.

[00:12:31] Like you are legitimate. And then you're bringing that expertise into coaching. So that's going to give you a huge leg up if it has no righty. And like you're saying, this is the wild west, like you're coming into. At probably the perfect time where there's so many people looking for these services and looking for exactly what you provide, but they don't really know who they're talking to is full of shit or not.

[00:12:52] But you know, you coming into this, obviously add some legitimacy and look, we're going to get into some of these things that you talk about. Anyone listening, like is fucking legit. Like I went through so many of your teaching already, and I just think what you're doing is incredible because you're bringing legitimacy to, to this field. And not only just legitimacy in like the woo term of just like fronting, but like you're actually here to help, and you actually have the strategies to help.

[00:13:16] Now going back into the therapist versus coach, you're saying therapists are basically bringing people's heads above water to like that they're maybe at a zero to like three or five in terms of like how they're feeling, maybe there's other pathologies there.

[00:13:31] And you're kind of getting them to like a five. Right. And then what you're basically saying is after they get to a five, their, uh, insurance kind of just says, they're fine now, and they can't go any further. Whereas you would want to help them go from like a five to like a 10. Is that kind of what you're doing now?

[00:13:48] Corey: Correct. Yeah. So, so overall rise. So, you know, there are, there are places where it's like a cash only clinic for therapies and they tailor more towards like celebrities or like other things where they can potentially do more.

[00:14:00] But if you think about even like physical therapy, right, you don't typically go to a physical therapist unless you're injured and trying to rehab a physical part of you. Right. It's the same thing with psychotherapy, which is the full term for like therapy, like for like depression, anxiety, like the full term psychotherapy to distinguish it from physical therapy or the other shit.

[00:14:23] generally the, function of going to therapy is to bring you from dysfunction to functioning.

[00:14:30] Now, sometimes people do go to a therapist for other things. They just want to like develop more insight or something. but insurance won't cover that. Right? So for me, in my situation, Population I worked with, they didn't have that luxury of, Hey doc, I just want to come in and talk. You don't have to fuck with doing a bunch of paperwork or figuring out like how to code what you did or fuck with the diagnosis.

[00:14:54] I just want to come in and talk and really clarify my thinking. Some people who are, who are well off have that luxury, but the majority of people don't. So the kind of beholden to whatever insurance would pay,

[00:15:09] Josh: The population you're working with. Right. So like what kind of people were you working with? What kind of things were you helping them with at the time?

[00:15:15] Corey: Yeah. if you're at all familiar with like the opioid epidemic and some of the places that it hit, um, I mostly worked in like, lower West Virginia, the state West Virginia, and then also Western Virginia. those were the, the majority of places that I worked both, getting my license and then afterward.

[00:15:37] So a lot of the people I worked with super poor, low education, maybe high school, some not even high school, So I worked in integrated primary care. All that means is I worked in medical clinics, alongside physicians So I did, what's called behavioral health. So the only there's something behavioral health and mental health is behavioral.

[00:15:54] Health is just what the fuck they call it. If you work in a medical setting. So I worked with like anxiety, depression, PTSD, ADHD, that kind of shit. But I also worked with addiction. I've worked a lot with addiction treatment. So like heroin, meth, pain pills, that kind of thing. and, health behaviors. So I did like some clinical health psychology.

[00:16:12] So, so you go to your physician and you're struggling with obesity, for example. your physician only has like 10 or 15 minutes with you, which isn't enough time. Like most, most of what they're probably gonna say is like, Hey, you need to exercise and eat different diet and exercise. That's all the fuck.

[00:16:30] They're going to tell you half the time, because they don't have time to do much else. So they would send you to me and I would figure out what, so I wouldn't tell you what to eat because that's the nutrition like dietician type third territory, but I can help you with identifying triggers for eating.

[00:16:44] So do you eat, do you stress eat? Okay. What are your stress triggers? What are alternative behaviors you can engage in that will help you cope and do what that stress other than eating, right? What are some other habits you can develop that don't rely on motivation. They rely much more on systems that can help you eat healthier in a convenient, you know, effective.

[00:17:11] So that kind of thing, same thing with addiction, it was, it was along the same lines of like, okay, what are your triggers? What are some strategies that we can figure out to help you overcome those triggers or avoid them altogether? Right. So that, that's largely what I did when I did therapy.

[00:17:27] Josh: Right. And that was always from what I'm hearing is things with like actual addictions, like addiction, like, like you're talking about meth, heroin, like some really addictive substances, and now you're doing something similar, but with people who might be dealing with like procrastination and stuff like that, that are other, self-harm, right? Like in, in, in terms of people trying to achieve like their highest potential.

[00:17:50] Corey: a couple of things, one psychology at the end of the day is about human behavior. Okay. So whether it is your actual habits or the thoughts you have, psychology is inherently about understanding and changing behaviors. Okay. So whether it's for therapy or coaching, whatever that is largely what I'm doing is like, okay, what is working?

[00:18:12] What isn't working, how can we change it? That is the same, regardless of who you're working with when it comes to addictions. So when I say addiction, I am using the clinical definition.

[00:18:24] Okay. Um, and I do that because like the quote unquote, like lay version of an addiction is just like, oh, you know, I have I'm addicted to buying shoes. You're probably not, you probably just fucking like shoes. Right. So in order for something to be an addiction, there are a couple qualifiers, but basically you do it despite it being harmful to you. Right. So if you're buying shoes, but you can afford shoes and you're buying shoes, isn't causing you to go late on your fucking bills, or you're still spending time with your family and shit, you're in no way addicted to buying shoes. Right. Um, there's only one fun fact, according to like clinical shit, like the DSM, which. The pretty much the Bible for diagnoses for psychology.

[00:19:13] Um, there's only one behavioral addiction. All the rest of them are like chemical addictions. Um, so chemical being like alcohol, benzos, you know, pain pills, that kind of thing. The only behavioral one is gambling right now. Okay.

[00:19:26] Josh: Really only

[00:19:29] Corey: right now. And that is because people will gamble to the point that they're not paying their utilities. They're, you know, bankrupting themselves, they're spending more time at a casino or something versus going to their family. They're running late for work. They're missing work, that kind of thing. Right.

[00:19:46] and then as far as chemically, So, you know, meth pretty much, you know, rots your fucking brain, but you do it, despite that you're shooting up, even though, you know, it is, uh, a used syringe you're, you're doing you're, you're doing shit despite how much harm it's causing, despite how much it's effect you, your kids get taken away because of X, Y, or Z. Right? That is an addiction.

[00:20:10] Procrastination isn't an addiction, right? Procrastination is a self-sabotaging behavior, but it isn't an addiction. Right. Um, one of, cause he used to run a bunch of like addiction groups, one of the guys in the group, um, so their own recovery or, or trying to be in recovery. And one of the guys, he was like, look, if you've never sucked Dick or been willing to suck Dick for it, you weren't addicted. Right. And that's a super crass way to put it, but that's sort of like how I see it. Like, are you willing to completely just debase yourself to get this? If you're not, it generally hasn't gotten into addiction territory from a clinical perspective, right?

[00:20:53] Josh: Wow. Okay. That's a lot to impact there. That's crazy, dude. Um, okay, so that just brought up something super interesting in my mind. Um, just with like the whole addiction. So let's, first of all, you were saying the only one behavioral wise that they treat as addiction is gambling. So would gaming fall under that as well?

[00:21:10] Like virtual gaming, like, just like that is a big issue. Maybe not so much here, but definitely in like Asia, like it's a really bad issue there. Do they? They don't recognize that at all or is it just

[00:21:22] Corey: So one, I'm not like I don't have a finger on the pulse of like the DSM shit anymore. Um, however, I know they're coming out with like a revised edition that that may be part of it.

[00:21:33] Here's the, here's the real thing though, is a problematic or not. Okay. If it is problematic, figuring out like, okay, what need is this filling? Okay. So like with gaming, for example, we talk about like being like a workaholic, but you're never diagnosed with being with workaholism. Right? So like with gaming, are you like a professional gamer or not?

[00:21:59] Right. So it's one, but the other thing is what does gaming do for you? Because I agree what you're saying is like some people, they would rather game than go to school or go to their job. And, you know, they're single because they can't maintain a relationship because they're gaming all the time in that regard, it has potential to be considered like pathological, right? Like a clinically significant illness.

[00:22:26] But I would be much more concerned with, doing what's called a functional analysis. I know it sounds like a jargony bullshit, but all it is psychologists do all the time. It's just, what function does that behavior serve?

[00:22:38] Why are you doing, what purpose does it have? Okay. So is it just the dopamine hit? Is it mastery of like, you love getting better and better at something? Is that the community because you feel alone, but when you gain, you felt part of something like what function does gaming serve and are there alternatives that fulfill the same function?

[00:23:01] Are there other ways for you to feel connected to people? Are there other ways for you to develop mastery or a sense of mastery? Are there other ways for you to get a hit of dopamine doing something that is potentially a little more, you know, um, healthy, But, collectively as a society, we're getting more and more plugged in to things.

[00:23:21] Right. So it's just like, that is, that needs to be an ongoing discussion because we're talking about like, metaverse shit. So it's just like, eventually we're going to be plugged in. That is the assumption long-term and all we're really doing is creating the fucking plot of the matrix.

[00:23:38] Josh: Scary man. That's why I have, I don't know when I'm watching, watching I half the red pill, blue pill going on behind me. Uh, I actually recently watched the new matrix. I don't know if you've seen it matrix resurrections, highly recommended, man.

[00:23:50] It's like, they take the original and kind of spin it on its head. And they're very self-aware of what it is. And they have a lot of this narrative around that, very societal, like they're really, they're really putting up a mirror to us. Like here's where we're at. Here's where we're going. It's really interesting. I love always bringing that up because it's so true.

[00:24:07] Right. And the one thing in the matrix they always talk about, it's just like, it's just chemicals going in the brain, right. It's just like electrical signals in the brain. What's the difference whether it's virtual or real, but could you now argue, like, you know, it becomes an addiction, right? We're addicted to the matrix.

[00:24:22] We're addicted to like being plugged in and addicted to just getting these dopamine hits. So it's, it's really interesting. I'm and while we're on this topic, before we move on here, I'd love to hear what, what your thoughts on this, like for you, someone who's been studying this is this alarming for you?

[00:24:37] Is it something that you're like concerned about? Or are you just in the minds of like, this is where things are going.

[00:24:42] Corey: you've seen this meme before, about how, you know, different generations of people bitching about technology, right? Like right now we're bitching about like the metaverse and then we were bitching about social media. And then before that we were bitching about, you know, smartphones and ship and then all the way back to people were bitching about newspapers.

[00:25:00] You know, people like reading the newspapers, nobody socializes anymore. And it's just like, well then there's like a fucking black and white picture of everybody just sitting in a subway, reading fucking newspaper. Right. Or before that reading books and how books took you away from conversations.

[00:25:12] It's just like, you could find a problem with anything, again, what is the function of all the shit? Right? Part of the function is helping us feel connected, right? Because humans inherently are social creatures. We need connection. Like that's why throughout history being ostracized or being shunned was a punishment. Or I like it, it physically and mentally hurts us to feel abandoned by the people we care about.

[00:25:40] And even now what we look, we throw people in prison. Right. We disconnect them from their environment. Right. So everything that we do collectively as society is about increasing connection.

[00:25:52] So it isn't a good or bad is a, this is the direction we are inevitably going. How can we make it as healthy and beneficial as possible? Right.

[00:26:03] Cause like, so even like when I did therapy, I was doing remote therapy there toward the end, right. Remote therapy. So just going through zoom or some other kind of shit, it was really helpful for certain people who they didn't have reliable transportation.

[00:26:18] Right. Or they had to have, find somebody to watch their kids and they didn't have the money to pay for a sitter. Right. So for them to be able to just log on either on their laptop or just their fucking phone, or even for some of them, they didn't even have a smartphone. They just had to just call that was so much more convenient for them.

[00:26:37] And you know, most of the only thing about just like those random barriers to treatment, right? and even, you know, you and me doing this, I don't have to fly to where you're at. You don't have to fly to wherever. We can just sit in our fucking offices at home and have this conversation. So we had this connection facilitated by technological advancements.

[00:26:55] Metaverse is going to be the same shit, whatever the fuck comes after the metaverse gonna be the same shit, right. Till we get to some fucking technological singularity. And then now humans. Aren't physically capable of fathoming. What the fuck happens of that, right. It's all about connection. In my opinion.

[00:27:10] Josh: It is. And I think like, again, there's good and bad to everything, right? Like you mentioned, this conversation probably would not be happening or, you know, even a couple of years ago wouldn't really be happening. And definitely not in this quality, if anyone was like watching, you're listening, like you can sound now like a third person as a fly on the wall, listening to us speak.

[00:27:27] You're also now in this conversation, but not even in this time, you and I are talking real time. They're in a totally different time. They could be listening to this. I don't know, a year after this three years. I don't know, man. It's crazy shit, but you're right. We can use technology for us to converse and have these conversations.

[00:27:43] I'm sure you can. I mean, we'll get into this. How are you using technology now to help people through online courses? But you know, you could do one of two things. You either sit around masturbate to porn on the internet all day and you know, just not even do anything, not even clean up your house, not even go to work or you can have these like thoughtful conversations that we're having using the same technology. So it's a really interesting double-edged sword.

[00:28:05] But also want to get into this, man. I just see your eyes light up when you're talking about this stuff to like help people. And it's, I mean, there's obviously a reason we can get into why you transitioned into a coach, but when you first started your studies, is this what you wanted to do when you first started? Like when you were first saying, what was your mind, who were the types of people that you want to help? And then what changed that for you?

[00:28:27] Corey: I actually hated psychology early on. Long story short and had some fucked up shit happen in my childhood. Went through a bunch of different therapists, burned through a bunch of therapists. like one of them. She, she told my mom that I was too manipulative for therapy and I took it as a compliment.

[00:28:46] And my mom was like, honey, that's the problem that you think that's a common it's like, no, no, no, if I'm fucking, if I'm like nine years old and I can outwitt somebody with a doctorate in psychology, I'm the smart one. And like, I was a super oppositional kid. I'm an oppositional adult, but I was an especially oppositional kid.

[00:29:02] so I, I fucking hate a psychology, took a psychology class in high school, taught by somebody who had read a psychology intro book and then taught from it. So they didn't have a lot of nuance with it. Um, and took intro psychology, which was a required course. Um, in college didn't give a single fuck about it, cause it was just memorizing, bullshit theories and experiments and shit.

[00:29:31] so early part of college, I bounced around between like business management, dietetics, a couple other majors kind of bounced around because I didn't fully know what I wanted to do. and then I had a required is either adult or child development class. So like lifespan psychology, shit and the professor, um, his name's Dr. Keelan Hinton, And I was expecting some like bald, old ass, white dudes looking like Freud or some shit, like when he talks chalk just fucking poofs out of his mouth or his armpits or some shit, he had fucking elbow pads and shit. That's what I was expecting.

[00:30:09] And in walk this young black dude from Memphis, like fucking covering like tattoo sleeves and shit talked like he was from Memphis, didn't speak like professorially or any of that shit, like, just talk like a real motherfucker. so I was like, you have my attention. the way he talked about psychology, the passion he had for it, and just helping me understand that psychology is pretty much seeing everything as a puzzle and, and understanding the nuances of psychology helps you put those pieces together.

[00:30:41] Um, especially, especially like around people and like, you know, how we think or how our childhoods fucked us up or how X, Y, and Z other shit, whatever that day I went to the, like the bursar's office or wherever it was, um, and changed my major psychology got a, bachelor's got a, master's got a doctorate because of that motherfucker.

[00:31:01] Like he is the reason I'm where I'm at now, because I would have never given psychology a chance without him, because I had had multiple chances to give a shit about psychology. And I just w the way everybody else framed, it just felt like bullshit to me. So he is the reason.

[00:31:21] Josh: Well, I can see that already shining through you, man. Like even just through this conversation through previous conversations. I don't think, again, even you are the stereotypical psychologist that people would, uh, think of or even life coach at that matter. Have you had, um, any clients or anything kind of say that to you? Like, oh, wow. That's not what I expected.

[00:31:39] Corey: Yeah. and by the way, like, I don't mean to shit on life coaches. I know plenty of Liko life coaches who are solid. I just mean like anybody can call themselves that. Right. Um, there are plenty of good ones. I've had clients before. One of them, he said, look, man, Naseem Taleb has this quote, if you ever have to pick between two doctors, choose the one that doesn't look like a doctor.

[00:32:00] Right. He was like, that's why I picked you for coaching. Cause like, you know, like for, for people listening, like I've got like, I'm covering like tattoos. Sleeves is shit. Like, obviously y'all y'all can fucking hear how I speak. Like, you know, I can go back and forth between like some jargon and just some regular shit. But like, I don't speak professionally. That's just that isn't me. Right. I am all about authenticity. Thanks.

[00:32:23] Josh: Yeah, And you can tell him man, and like it shines through and it makes a huge difference. It's like how you can really connect with people too. Right? Like I'm sure that happened with your clients previous when you're dealing with other people's too. I'm sure you can like really relate to them and help them out more rather than like being from a place of like over privilege and like kind of looking down on them.

[00:32:41] You can, I can really tell you, get on their level and you can really empathize with people and it's really refreshing to see. so it's really awesome. I'm super like impressed and happy that we could have this conversation because it's exactly, I like to talk.

[00:32:53] I don't like to talk to people who are like too professional. I like to be super chill about the stuff, but really get the information across. And that's what I really appreciate about you and what you do is like exactly, you said you can talk some shit, but I know that what you're saying is going to be legit at the end of the day. So it's, it's a really refreshing take on this.

[00:33:10] but I guess I kind of want to get into now and asking you, dude, is this like when did you make that jump? What was the reason for making that jump to coaching? I know there was like a catalyst and maybe I don't want to take your thunder here, but I'd love for you to kind of, you know, just for people listening, who might want to know the reason why.

[00:33:25] Cause, they might see it as like, okay, you love what you're doing. Um, you're able to help people who are like down on their luck. Why would you give it all up to just start coaching entrepreneurs? Like there's obviously a reason for it.

[00:33:37] Corey: Yeah, so a couple of reasons. Um, so like I said, um, I'm just, I'm oppositional just as a person. I don't like being told what to do. Um, I'm just inherently rebellious, but, um, so I think that part of that. Naturally lens to entrepreneurship. But for a while I had kind of just thought about riding online and not necessarily coaching, just doing something because, you know, we talked about at the beginning of this, there are a lot of fake gurus just like selling snake oil and just bullshit, right.

[00:34:13] But the issue that I saw was the guru, the fake gurus is, cause I never actually, I rarely have used the term guru in like the proper sense of like somebody who's actually enlightened, but just like fake gurus are really good at talking and conveying information. But the information they convey is bullshit or it's like third or fifth hand knowledge that they read a summary of a book of a thing of a thing.

[00:34:38] But then the actual experts are either locked away in the ivory towers of academia or super hard to get ahold of through, you know, paywalls and private practice and also the ship. And if you've ever tried to read a fucking like research article, those bitches are hardest. Fuck to understand, like, I have the training to where I can understand them, but it's super fucking cumbersome.

[00:35:04] Right? Let alone the fact that it may cost you $40 to read a single fucking research journal. Like just one fucking. It's just so you have all these experts who know what they're talking about, but never share their knowledge in a way that normal people can fucking access it. Because the only people who read research articles are people who are doing their own research and just need to fucking, they need a citation, but the gurus are super good at talking.

[00:35:32] But what they talk about is bullshit. So I wanted to be that go-between of, I am an expert. I know what I'm talking about and I can talk like a normal fucking person. So I had that desire early on, but I, you know, struggled with perfectionism and procrastinating. Also the bullshit shit everybody struggles with.

[00:35:51] And then, a couple of things happened around around the same time. I had a friend who was an attorney. You'd been an attorney for like 20 years or something. And what he actually wanted to do was write a book. He wanted to be an author. But he let fear and limiting beliefs and a bunch of shit just kind of like, cause him to kind of put that off.

[00:36:15] And eventually he stopped practicing law, started writing his book and the book had a lot of potential, could have changed a lot of lives. And then one day he went to the doctor and was diagnosed with stage four, pancreatic cancer. Two weeks later, he was gone You know, part of like the write-up that his family, like the statement they released talked about how like his dream remains unfulfilled.

[00:36:39] So that happened, which really pissed me off. And then shortly after that, I had another friend who, similar story, he had done the traditional job route working job didn't really care care for. And then had recently gone back to get his, uh, to get a degree in creative writing because he was going to write like a memoir and some other shit.

[00:36:59] Same fucking deal midway through his, his degree and book, he had like a freak fucking heart attack or something died with a book half finished and like especially like as a writer, like that's terrifying to die with a book half finished. And then I had third friend who she, went the traditional job route and eventually retired early, so she could enjoy her health while she had it. Within the year, she was diagnosed with, um, metastatic breast cancer.

[00:37:31] And it's pretty much just someone like long-term palliative care. And it's just like back to back to back, I saw these and, you know, like I said, so I grew up poor as fuck, like on food stamps on public housing, on, um, free health insurance. Again for America that's means you're super fucking poor.

[00:37:51] And so I constantly saw people want to do fulfilling work or just want to do more with themselves, but all these limiting beliefs and all these other circumstances prevented them from it. And then, you know, as an adult, as I'm going through, you know, getting my license and all this other shit, I see these friends back to back to back hit the same fucking wall of, I know what I want to do, or I at least know that I don't want to do what I'm currently doing, and then they make that change too late and then they die or some other kind of shit hits the fan.

[00:38:26] So around that time is when I started basically, I was like, look, I'm going to write online period. So I overcame all the bullshit fears and things. I started writing that was like, I wrote an article about that happening and just like the concept of memento mori, like remember death. So using mortality as a motivator to live fully.

[00:38:47] I started writing about that after they died and shit, cause there's just so fucking pissed off about the fact that so many of us let bullshit get in our way of pursuing fulfillment or whatever you want to call it a better life. So that spurred me to start writing online.

[00:39:05] this was right before I learned, I kind of got into coaching. I was before I read that article. So I knew I wanted to help people, but I didn't fully know how I could help them be on therapy because a new therapy wasn't doing it. I knew there's just too much bullshit red tape with, with therapy. Um, for, for what I specifically wanted to do.

[00:39:24] Therapy super necessary, and I really enjoy doing therapy, but I was burning the fuck out because of all the red tape and bureaucracy and all the fucking bullshit rules that only get in the way of, of providing care.

[00:39:37] And then I negotiated with my job. I negotiated a remote therapy contract, so I was going to move. I was going to quit. They're like, well, how about you stay? And you just work remote. Is it cool? That's awesome. So we do all that. I'm move. And then two months later I get fired. Sure. Fired, let go, whatever you want to call it purely because they were moving away from remote tele-health. In the middle of the fucking pandemic. It made no goddamn sense.

[00:40:13] so I got the notice in November of 2020, like right before my birthday, so happy birthday to me. Um, and they were like, Hey, in 30 days you're gonna be fired. No job. So I had three paychecks worth of runway, nothing in my savings because I had been paying off like some debt that I had accrued for through grad school and shit.

[00:40:35] no job prospects and like 30 days notice to figure out my fucking life in December. Right? So happy holidays. Um, the issue was, and this goes to the bullshit of therapy, at least in America.

[00:40:49] So the way therapy currently works, therapy, licenses work. I can be anywhere in the world and do like a remote therapy session. But you, as my patient have to physically be in the state I'm licensed in during the call. You don't have to live there. You just have to have your two fucking feet on that piece of dirt. During that 30 to 60 minute call, my therapy license is out of West Virginia. I was living in Kentucky at the time. I could only do therapy with people who were in West Virginia.

[00:41:21] I couldn't find another therapy like a remote therapy job out of like out of West Virginia. I wasn't willing to move back. And in order for me to get licensed in Kentucky would have taken like four months or longer and hundreds of dollars because of how fucked up the licensure process is for therapy.

[00:41:41] so I was like, well, I'm not going to do that. I'm burnt the fuck out anyway. So let me. Figure out something else. So that was when I came across an article, went through the college of executive coaching, got certified in that, and I didn't do it to learn how to coach necessarily. Cause again, like I've got 15 years of experience doing shit.

[00:42:02] It was more so to help me make the mental shift from a pathology model to a wellness model. This is the fucked up thing about therapy is therapy defines wellness as the absence of illness. Right? So therapy is about, oh, you will feel well when you're not depressed. And it's like that, that isn't no, that isn't wellness.

[00:42:26] Wellness isn't the absence of illness. Wellness is a completely different fucking thing. Right. So like, and we don't, we don't define what wellness is. We define what wellness isn't.

[00:42:40] Right. And I didn't recognize that until I started shifting to coaching. I was like, holy fucking shit. Like this is true.

[00:42:48] Josh: You just took the red pill, man.

[00:42:50] Corey: So I, so, so it was just for the mental shift and plus just for liability.

[00:42:56] Cause you know, I'm, I'm held to a higher standard, um, just because of, you know, my credentials and shit. So it was like, well, getting certified as a coach allows me to practice coaching. Legally to where, if anybody, wherever, like, Hey core, you're practicing therapist on a license. No motherfucker. I'm not, here's my credential as a coach.

[00:43:18] And like, here's the fucking fine print in my contract that all my coaching clients sign that says business isn't therapy. Right. So like covering as many bases as possible. So I got served as a coach started, um, like my own website started learning like copywriting mark. Cause like I jumped into entrepreneurship with zero fucking business background.

[00:43:41] Like, like I said, I grew up poor as fuck grip on just all the, all the poor shit. And I had to learn everything within like a couple months because I didn't, I didn't have savings. I just, I had to figure it the fuck out real quick. So within like three, four months, um, I had went from doing nothing, having nothing to having a coaching business, um, writing online, you know, I first started doing was just like free coaching to get testimonials and then move to paid shit.

[00:44:14] Josh: How long does it take you to get your first paid client?

[00:44:17] Corey: That was probably three months give or take. So, I did the coaching certification through December. It was like, my last official day was like December 4th or some shit. Um, so did that through December. 'cause they have like three full phases. I did the first two, the third phase is more like corporate executive coaching, which I

[00:44:37] Josh: Okay.

[00:44:37] Corey: in.

[00:44:37] So I

[00:44:38] Josh: Oh really? So you want to purely just work with individual solo, preneurs entrepreneurs, creators, that kind of stuff.

[00:44:44] Corey: Yeah. So again, I'm oppositional corporate, just doesn't it makes me itchy. Um, so like wearing your dress codes and like corporate speak and like just all like the just isn't for me. Um, I I'm completely cool. Like go in and work with a company that's that's super cool. But like doing it, like as a corporate level person is just, it isn't for me like doing like, um, what are called like 360 assessments and doing like a bunch

[00:45:10] Josh: yeah.

[00:45:11] Corey: and all the shit. That's more what

[00:45:12] Josh: industrial psychology, right?

[00:45:14] Corey: Sort of, yeah. Some IO shit. Um, so that's what the, the phase three is, is more so about. Like here's how to do all these assessments for companies. And you go in like for a full fucking day do consultation and you, you give them all these reports and shit. I don't like paperwork. So I was like that, just that isn't for me, at least not right now, maybe one day, but no time soon.

[00:45:33] so I did the first two phases, got the certification through December, January, February, March was, you know, head down, figuring out copywriting marketing, setting up a fucking LLC. Um, Creating offers outreach, um, growing on social media, that kind of thing. And then I took some other courses, some other like cohort-based courses around like growing your own course, writing online, making video a bunch of other shit.

[00:46:01] Um, but around March, April ish, I think 2021 is when I started getting like my first paid coaching clients.

[00:46:11] Josh: Awesome. So what does that look like? Like when someone engages with you, cause you were doing one-on-one at the time, what does that look like? What does that process look like? Is it like a retainer base, like a monthly, weekly? How does that work?

[00:46:24] Corey: originally I offered, like packages. So one of the, the most common package was like 12 sessions for whatever the price was at the time, because my price increases over time.

[00:46:35] Um, my thought was 12 sessions is one session a week. So this package will take three months. I only want to work with three to five people at a time because when I did therapy, you'd see a hundred people a month sometimes. And that's just way too fucking many. You can't keep track of shit. I much prefer working with a small handful of people and going super deep with them and then spending the rest of my time, creating content and work on another ship.

[00:47:01] I do not want to be a full-time coach. Like I'm not trying to coach for 40 fucking hours a week. That's just, isn't what I want to do. So, um, what I found was people by and large would sign up for 12 sessions, but not do them every week. So some people would finish maybe in four months, some in six, some year and a half, they still have a handful left. Right.

[00:47:27] Josh: The credits basically, you just gave them credit so they

[00:47:30] Corey: Correct. And, and th that isn't on them, right? Because they bought a set number of sessions. There, there were no requirements for like a time limit. Right. So that's completely not on them. Some of them are, I mean, they're doing big shit, so it's hard for them to work it in every week.

[00:47:48] Right. Some of them have moved more towards like, Hey man, I'm just going to do it. Like maybe once a month to touch base and go from there. Um, So because of that, because of the inconsistency in income, um, I have decided to move to just like a monthly retainer. So the, the current thing, whenever this airs, the current thing is, um, an hour a week for, for, for a month, right?

[00:48:15] So a total of four sessions a month. And, um, the very first session is like 90 minutes, just so we can go super deep on some shit. But then after that, every session after what is just 60 minutes, um, and it's just month to month. So if you want to do a month and be done, you're done. If you want to do three months, that's cool.

[00:48:33] You don't sign, you don't pay for it in advance. You just do it for three fucking months. And then you're done. Um, three months is usually the sweet spot for a lot of people. Um, and then again, after that, if, if you want to take a break for five, six months and then come back till the court, um, and I do that because I like the frame of every week is a specific experiment.

[00:48:57] So this is your main priority for the week. And then when we come back, we say, what worked, what didn't work? What do you want to change or work on for this coming week? It's just a lot easier to just kind of micro experiments on a weekly basis.

[00:49:09] Uh,

[00:49:10] Josh: I love

[00:49:11] Corey: pretty much. Yeah, it's just, for me, it's just, it makes sense.

[00:49:15] Um, now a lot of coaches like high-level coaches, I know they offer. Less for a higher price. Um, so common things are maybe, one, either 30 or 90 minutes session every other week. So at the high end with some coaches, you're going to get three hours versus, you know, me you'd get four. Um, and I just, again, I just, for me, I come from the therapy world, so I'm used to an hour a week.

[00:49:43] Right. Um, so I just kind of kept that model. but at the same time, if, if you only want to do like two sessions a month, that's cool. It's just, it's the same price for me currently. Right? It's, it's, it's a monthly retainer of you get up to four hour sessions a month,

[00:49:58] Josh: So that was the one-on-one. So now you're looking to scale that obviously, like what I want to get into years, it's sort of a cohort based courses that you've taken that you've obviously been inspired to like kind of bring this model into, um, like a whole new business model, teaching things, teaching more people where you can actually scale.

[00:50:17] And that, like what I heard earlier, like, it seems like you would rather create content, spend most of your time creating content that like obviously more people can, access rather than doing this. One-on-one it's obvious. Like you can just impact way more people. So how has that changed now that now that you're starting to think about a cohort-based course, how do you think about it?

[00:50:36] Cause I know this is going to be new for you. I'm interested to hear how you're going to turn this into something where it's like not an evergreen course, not something that, you know, like again, like these fit, a lot of fake gurus will just have an evergreen course. Like they have like ads running, they have a sales funnel and people will go through their shit.

[00:50:51] You are going to be there week by week working with these people instead of one-on-one you're going to have a group. So I'm interested to hear how you're thinking about that and how you're going to be adapting this into this whole new model.

[00:51:02] Corey: Yeah. So going back to the original reason I started, you know, writing online and things. Fundamentally, I think that too many people die regretting not having done more with their lives, right? Because we let fear limiting beliefs, other bullshit, lack of clarity on what we actually want out of life, stop us.

[00:51:17] And there's a study by Cornell that basically said 76% of people on their deathbeds die with the same regret, which is essentially they lived a mediocrity. Um, they, they didn't take the chances. They let fear stop them, or complacency stopped them from doing the things that they actually found meaningful. And then on their death bed, they're like, fuck, I wish I would have done it different.

[00:51:43] So for me, my whole coaching framework, this is probably a good place to start. So people understand that. What the fuck am I actually doing? My coaching framework is just sort of like a five-step thing.

[00:51:54] The main difference with how I approach coaching versus how other coaches do. Yes, we can fuck with productivity and time management and habits and whatever the fuck else that typically comes up with it. But the main difference with how I approach coaching is I'm all about, okay, but how can we build, you know, I call it intentional life design.

[00:52:15] How can we help you be more intentional with how you live, work and create, how can we help you build a fulfilling business and life overall? Right? Cause a lot of people, there's nothing wrong with money, right? I love money, but a lot of people chase money to the exclusion of meaning, right? Meaning they, they take the route that is lucrative, but makes the miserable, when your reality, you can make money doing something you actually fucking enjoy. That is possible. Right?

[00:52:45] So the framework that I use with one-on-one clients is we start off by identifying your core value, right? So like not some ikigai, shit, you know, people talk about self-actualization, eudaimonia fulfillment, all these other things. For me, figuring out what fulfillment looks like to you starts by identifying well, what resonates with you on a fundamental level, right?

[00:53:11] What is the, the distillation of everything you give a shit about everything that you've ever found meaningful? What is that core value that runs through everything else? Right.

[00:53:21] So for example, my core value is freedom. And that can take a lot of different routes, you know, um, freedom to do certain things, freedom from doing other things.

[00:53:32] So shortly after I quit, like certainly after I decided to leave the therapy world, I got a therapy job offer as a six-figure job offer and it required 40 to 60 hours a week. Um, so that is 40 60 hours that pulled me away from creating content and doing other things or building a business that meant dressing a certain way, speaking a certain way, filling out paperwork a certain way, dealing with all the fucking which diagnosis goes, where fucking with insurance, all that other shit.

[00:54:05] And I was like, look, you know, every decision you make, every opportunity that comes your way has the potential to get you one step closer to, or one step further away from a life aligned with your core value. Okay. So with that opportunity to ask myself, does this get me closer or further away from a life aligned with freedom?

[00:54:27] And the answer was clear was like this doesn't lead to freedom. I would rather spend those 40 to 60 hours a week building a fucking business that will compound beyond six figures eventually then taking this job. That was my personal decision. So I said, no. so that is why I start with the core value, because it just, it gives you very clear compass of which direction do you want to go by?

[00:54:52] Because like a lot of the entrepreneurs who come to me, you know, like one of them, he said, look, man, I built 10 other companies. I'm trying to figure out what is worth my time for the 11th one that I'm inevitably going to build. But he's like, I can't not build a company. It's just what the fuck I do. But I have so many opportunities, but so little time left in my life overall.

[00:55:14] Cause he's also a memento Mori guy. So part of it is when you figure out, when you clarify your core value, that gives you a lot of clarity on how to move forward in which direction to move forward.

[00:55:28] Josh: interesting. How do you find, um, like how do you help people find their core value? Obviously, from what I'm hearing, it's just like, you're, you're picking one. Like how do you get people to like, figure out what their one core value is? Are there times where they have more than one and there's like one stronger? How do you help them clarify that?

[00:55:46] Corey: Yeah. So a couple of things, one, this is why. At least for one-on-one coaching. The first session is 90 minutes because usually it takes a while to clarify your core value. Um, and some people, it takes three or four sessions before they really nail it down. Right. It really depends on how much you've already kind of thought about it beforehand.

[00:56:04] I have a lot of exercises that I use with people. Um, we can talk about later, I'll put them all together, like a micro course, um, this like self-paced, so people go through it on their own, but sometimes people think they have either conflicting values or they're, they're down to two and they're like, oh, I can't figure out which one is, which.

[00:56:25] Usually there's either an underlying value. So for example, one guy worked with he's like, look, man, my two values are growth and comfort, but they're mutually exclusive because what he had done was he created a false dichotomy. He had said, in order to grow, I have to be uncomfortable. And in order to be comfortable, I can't grow. And it's like, okay.

[00:56:52] So with that specific issue, let's assume that they're related. Let's assume that there's a third variable that connects them with that assumption. What could it be? And for him it was freedom also specifically the freedom to push himself and grow in certain areas, but also the freedom to enjoy the fruits of his labor in other areas of his life.

[00:57:16] So it wasn't that they were mutually exclusive. They were both sort of branches that came out of freedom. two really simple questions I ask people to help them clarify their core value. what do you give a shit about? Question number one. So just fundamentally just what do you give a shit about? And then the second question is why do you give a shit about it?

[00:57:40] so like one guy I worked with, when I asked him this, he was like, oh, I give a shit about building things for people like specifically physical things. I was like, okay, why do you give a shit about, you know, building physical things for people. And we went through this a couple of times, because usually you have to ask why a handful of times where they finally get to the root of it.

[00:58:01] Josh: Yeah. The five whys usually.

[00:58:03] Corey: that's that's one way. Yeah. Sometimes it takes a dozen. Yeah. Um, but for him, it finally came down to. 'cause when I was a kid, I built my little brother, a dog house and the look of joy on his face is something I'll never forget. So I want to build things for other people to give them that same sense of joy I was able to give my, my little brother when we were kids. Right. So that is like his, his fundamental reason for doing what he does. Right.

[00:58:34] So when, once you clarify your core value now, and, and again, if some people go with, well here, like my eight values, right? So a value for my physical health, my mental health spiritually, also the ship, it's fine.

[00:58:49] I'm a simple dude. I much prefer one core value and then say, okay, how does this core value come up in for my physical health, for my mental health for personally, professionally, spiritually, whatever, right? I'm much prefer one core value. And then seeing how it comes up in different areas of life, rather than having eight or 12 fucking principles and all this other shit.

[00:59:12] Okay. Me personally, that is my take on it. That is how I work with clients. And that's usually why people come to me because they're like, oh, I haven't heard of this single value thing, this core value. I like that approach. Let me see if it works for me specifically. so that's the first part is clarifying your core.

[00:59:30] Um, and again, I have a bunch of different, um, techniques and prompts to show you use with people. Um, but what do you give a shit about and why did you give a shit about it are the simplest ways for you to get start getting in the ballpark of what your one core value is?

[00:59:48] You can also just start with a brain dump, just dump all the shit. You care about. Try to get it to like a single word or like a really short sentence. And then once you've, brain-dump everything figure out how they connect, like what is the

[01:00:02] through line between all? of them.

[01:00:04] Josh: The thread between it all, yeah. I love that.

[01:00:06] Corey: that gets you in the ballpark.

[01:00:07] Josh: Yeah, because it's super hard. Right? I think like, even, I think you, you wrote something about it even. I was like, most people don't even know what resonates with them on a fundamental level. And I think that's So true with a lot of people will have a hard time finding what their core value is or what they actually give a shit about.

[01:00:23] It's like, have you seen that Disney movie Soul? Have you seen Soul?

[01:00:28] Oh my God,

[01:00:29] Corey: one of the few I haven't seen yet.

[01:00:30] Josh: you, you need to watch it, man. You would absolutely love it. But there's this whole idea of like the souls before you come down to earth, they're like trapped in the ether or whatever. And they have the choice to go down, down to earth, like from the heavens, wherever the fuck it is out in space, whatever.

[01:00:47] And the main like sole character, like the main block, like little blobs of soul. Um, it had stayed in this like ether realm for like thousands of years. Cause it just couldn't find something that it gave a shit about. So all these people, all these famous people who had died, think Martin, Martin, Luther king, all these like really big people.

[01:01:08] They tried to get the soul to go down to earth by finding something that they give a shit about. And it just couldn't. And you know, there's like this whole room in the movie. I don't want to ruin the whole movie, but it's really cool. There's like this room where it has everything possible in the world to go play with, it was like, you can play basketball. Maybe you really liked sports. Maybe you like animals, blah, blah, blah.

[01:01:27] So there's this whole scene in the movie where like, they go through everything. Like now can't find it. I don't give a shit whatever, and it's not until they actually get down to earth and start experiencing life that they find something.

[01:01:37] So, I mean, that's a really good analogy of just like, you need to try shit before you find it. But I'm just wondering how these, I know this is probably the biggest core reason. This must be one of the biggest reasons that people get tripped up and they don't live an intentional life because they don't even fucking know.

[01:01:52] I don't even know on a fundamental level what they give a shit about. So I'm just wondering how you've like, brought that up for people to be like, here's how you can actually find, I mean, you have the questions, but I'm wondering if there's something else you can, like, I think that's the biggest thing that people get tripped up on. They will still don't even know.

[01:02:07] How do you get people to have that like awakening moment to be like, oh, wow, okay. Maybe this, or is it just a matter of trying shit out?

[01:02:13] Corey: a lot of us think we know what we want, but then we try to articulate and we're like, nevermind, I have no fucking clue. Right. And part of that is most of us chase shit that we think we're supposed to want.

[01:02:28] Right. We either do what society tells us. We accept inherited values, like from our family, from church, from media, from whatever. And the issue when you do that is when you create goals like, oh, I want to hit this. You know, you know, recurring revenue. I want to hit this or I want to achieve X, Y, Z, whatever.

[01:02:49] If those goals don't resonate with you on a fundamental level and get you closer to a life aligned with what you actually give a shit about. You're either going to give up, burn out, half-ass it, or even if you do achieve that goal, factory victory is just going to feel hollow because it doesn't actually fucking matter.

[01:03:09] Right? So like me, for example, if I set a goal to get six pack, abs not that I want to, but like, let's just say I did. That's a fine goal, but even if I achieved it, it wouldn't do fuck all for me because having six pack abs is largely a vanity metric. Right. Because that doesn't tell you anything about core strength, your overall trunk strength itself, fitness form with lifting overall strength. It does nothing. It's just all, do you have six bricks? Pretty much. Right.

[01:03:46] So for me, because it doesn't resonate with me on a fundamental level, even if I achieved it, I just wouldn't get much out of it. Right. And because I don't actually care about it, it is very unlikely that I would be able to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve it in the first place.

[01:04:05] Now, if I'm like a fitness model or I'm trying to create like a fitness company and like part of it is that, well, then it's going to be very different, right? Because I clearly give a shit about fitness enough to start a company around it. I'm trying to be the spokesperson, XYZ, whatever, very different. Right. So six pack abs itself is a fine goal, but it wouldn't be for me specifically.

[01:04:27] Josh: Right.

[01:04:28] Corey: So as far as other ways of helping people clarify their core value, like I said, the two, so obviously one-on-one like, I'm going to dig into it specifically with them. Right. um,

[01:04:39] Josh: It's of course. Case by case. Yeah.

[01:04:42] Corey: But overall, if you can, just the simplest ways to approach it right now, especially just, for you listening, just brain dump all the things you you care about or you find meaningful, Answer the questions. What do I give a shit about? Why do I give a shit about them and just keep digging in until you finally get to the bottom of like, oh, this is that thread. This is that through line of, of all of the memories I have where I felt like I was in like a flow state or all the things that like, I, that deeply resonated with me growing up. The, the one thing that I feel would be critical to a life well lived. What does that life have to include?

[01:05:25] Josh: And all those branches and that's

[01:05:27] Corey: Exactly. In all those

[01:05:28] Josh: In all of them.

[01:05:29] Corey: And that's part of it. Like the simplest way to, to approach is just start with all the fucking branches and then slowly see where they connect, how they connect and eventually get to that root. Right.

[01:05:38] Um, you know, common core values I see from a lot of people are things like freedom, right? Cause obviously I work with entrepreneurs, um, authenticity service to others.

[01:05:48] So like one, a woman I worked with she, long story short, she has like a fashion brand. And one thing is I was talking to her about, was like, why, like why fashion? Right? Like people are going to come at you with like all fashion is superficial. It's just vanity. Like, why do you give a shit about pretty clothes?

[01:06:05] And I said it that way intentionally to be like antagonistic, like why, why should pretty clothes matter? Right. To push her and, and obviously safe environment. She, we had rapport, it was whatever I wasn't just being a Dick.

[01:06:19] and it finally came out that for her fashion is a form of self-expression that allows you to build confidence, right? Because a lot of people are pigeonholed into, you can only dress a certain way. You can only do this a certain way, but by helping people develop their own sense of fashion, which is part of what our company does, that allows them to build their confidence, to get comfortable expressing themselves, and one avenue that they can express themselves is in the clothes that they wear.

[01:06:49] Right. So that is a much deeper level then just all want to make people look pretty. Like that, that doesn't fucking matter. Right. But if you see it as at its core, I, my core value is self-expression and does helping other people achieve their own form of self-expression, and one way to achieve that is by building a fashion company. the kind of shift that I work with people.

[01:07:14] Josh: dude, I love us so much and it just blew my mind and I love making the connections to like other things outside of the conversation, I think you would find super interesting. Um, I'm sure you know about the story of we work in the company, we all know the name WeWork they're like really big fucking brand, but there's a show right now, an apple called we crashed the story of how he started, we work and you might find it really interesting at least from like an inspirational standpoint of like how these people work.

[01:07:38] And it's funny, I was having this conversation. I'm kind of taking what I've been reading of yours and putting that into the story. And I'm like, wow, like this makes so much sense. Like the company was started as I think it was called green desk. And they're like, oh, it's for people who want to be environmentally friendly. Everything's environmentally friendly.

[01:07:55] And then they were like interviewing people at a coffee shop and they're like, Yeah. like, this is why we're building We Work, cause like working at a coffee shop sucks. Like, look at this, like I have to watch this person's laptop and like shitty coffee. And like it's, it's hard to find a plug to charge your laptop.

[01:08:10] And then this woman like turns to him was like, no, we care about community. You're here to be with other people. And like, yeah, fucking community. This is why we're doing this while we're building communal office spaces. So then they changed the name that we like, let's we live, we work, we work. Yes. And they're like, it's all about we.

[01:08:26] So it's like the We company it's about this core value of community of just connection. And then that just, that was a through line through everything else. So I think you hit something there, especially working with entrepreneurs is finding that one single value, finding the connections.

[01:08:44] And that totally just changed the way that I look at these kinds of things too, when it comes to starting a new project, whether it's like looking back on the projects I'm already working on, going deeper into that single core value.

[01:08:55] And that's, it honestly blew my mind. I love finding these like other examples where I like make the connection that way. I'm like, holy shit, that's so true. And that's where you see major growth, right? Like it's, there's nothing like very flat, but it's not this, every other business. There's like a million other coworking spaces out there.

[01:09:13] But what made we work different is like they really instilled their core value. And of course. the founder was maniacal and was like a really good talker and sales person. But other than that, he was able to communicate, communicate that core value. So that's really interesting, man. Um, yeah, I guess, do you have any thoughts on that? Like,

[01:09:33] Corey: Yeah. So one of the things that Tom Bilyu, um, founder of Impact Theory, um, and before that quest nutrition co-founder questions, relationship, Tom has a really good quote, which is the struggle is guaranteed. Success is not. Okay. Um, you know, mark Manson, his kind of take on it is what's your favorite flavor of shit sandwich.

[01:09:56] what that basically hits on is what is worth your time to do. Okay. Right? So again, momento mori, we're all going to fucking die. That is an inevitability. We all have a finite amount of time, no matter how much money you make, you can never buy more time.

[01:10:10] that, that whole classical thought experiment of, you know, if you could change places with Warren buffet right now, would you, and it's like, you'd have billions of dollars, but you'd be like 95 or some shit. Right. Most people wouldn't. And that tells you the inherent value of time. Okay.

[01:10:26] So the reason I focus so much on this core value shit at first is so that you can figure out what the fuck is worth your time. What struggle are you willing to embrace when success isn't guaranteed. Right now, obviously you can iterate, you can pivot all that typical business fucking jargon shit to make it successful in some capacity. Right. Entrepreneurs are very good at that.

[01:10:50] The fundamental, you gotta figure out what, what is worth it. Right. So there's concept called eudaimonia. and I'm not a huge like philosopher guy, but I really like the concept because, people are probably more familiar with hedonia, which is like hedonism, right? Like hedonic, the hedonic treadmill, that kind of thing.

[01:11:08] So hedonia is just means like pleasure seeking, right? Like usually superficial pleasure. It's like a dopamine hit. eudaimonia is, is sort of like a longer-term vision from that. So eudaimonia, it doesn't necessarily feel good in the moment, but over the longterm you feel it is worth it. Right.

[01:11:28] So one of the examples I use is, um, Justin, the pygmy rent, he's an MMA fighter. Um, obviously big ass white dude, uh, called the pygmy because he's very passionate about helping the pygmy population in the Congo gain access to clean drinking water. So like he's got a company like they dig Wells and doses shit for them.

[01:11:48] And Justin has gotten malaria like three times, even though he's he gets an oxalate and shit, apparently still get fucking malaria, um, going down there, but it continues to do it. So if you were to talk to Justin on a day, he has malaria. You'd be like, Hey Justin, how you feeling today? You know, you're feeling like shit, motherfucker. Like, what do you think I have malaria?

[01:12:12] Right. So from a hidden hedonic perspective, he doesn't feel good. Right. It isn't a good day, but if you say, hey, Justin, is this struggling? And the suffering worth it in the longterm, he will say yes. Right. And I,

[01:12:28] And I bring that up because entrepreneurship or any sort of worthwhile project you're going to have bad days. You're going to have days where you hit a fucking wall or you plateau or everything just goes fucking south, right? If you are chasing goals that don't resonate with you, those days will cripple you. But if you're pursuing shit that fundamentally resonates with you, those days are easier to push through. Okay. But if you only chase pleasure, then on the day that pleasure doesn't happen, you will quit.

[01:13:03] You know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs type shit. He talks about how less than 1% of people ever reached self-actualization, or just like that top tier of the pyramid. And the reason for that is most people are satisfied with that second from the top tier, which is esteem.

[01:13:19] So the esteem tier by that point basically means you have everything you need, as far as food shelter, um, you have, uh, you make good money, people like you, either you're famous or you get trophies and accolades and shit. Most people are satisfied with that level.

[01:13:39] And the main difference between the people who stop there and the people who get up to that last tier is that, is what is a worthwhile thing for you to do that is worth pushing through fear, limiting beliefs, complacency, comfort, all that other shit. What is worth it? Right? Because self-actualization is more so about reaching your potential, but what the fuck does your potential mean? Right. That doesn't mean, you know, peak performance necessarily.

[01:14:08] It's what are you capable of? Right. Both. What are you capable of on like a mental and physical level, but also what impact are you capable of making in the world? That's how I kind of see it. Right.

[01:14:21] So that's how I kind of jumped around to like these, these different like philosophies, you know, self-actualization for Maslow, eudaimonia, um, and you know, fulfillment and like this other shit, because like they're all connected if you know how to look at them, because fundamentally what they're saying is how can you do what fundamentally resonates with you that you are uniquely qualified to do? Right. So that is where I focus my efforts, both in my writing now, my coaching, and then this course I'm creating is through that.

[01:14:54] so like getting back to like the, the framework I use, right? So again, step one is clarify a core value. The second part is create goals that act as stepping stones to get you closer to a life aligned with that core value. Okay. Whatever the fuck this goes. All right. Goals change. But as long as they're rooted in that core value and gets you closer to a life aligned with it, probably worthwhile goals.

[01:15:19] so now we know where you want to go and why you want to go there. So now we say, okay, what could get in your way? What obstacles could prevent you from getting there? Or what obstacles have gotten in your way in the past with other shit you've tried to do? Cause learning to identify and anticipate obstacles is critical. Okay. So that way you can prepare for them.

[01:15:42] So, you know, it may be, well, I don't know which direction to go, or I don't have enough money for this, or I don't know anybody. So like, um, you know, one person worked with they're like, look, I'm trying to build this company and I need, um, like some AI and machine learning components in the software, but I don't know any of it. Okay. So that is a real obstacle that could prevent you from doing this.

[01:16:05] So the next part is identifying strengths and resources that you already have at your disposal that you can use to leverage, to overcome those obstacles. Right? So who in your network, can you currently reach out to for some AI ML type shit, right.

[01:16:25] Do you have mentors? Do you have friends? Do you have somebody that you could tap into that either they know how to do it, or they can refer you to somebody else, for example, right? What's all the shit you're good at who all do you know for your network? You can tap into, those are typical things you, you focus on in like the leverage component.

[01:16:40] Well, last part is just developing a plan, right? Like how are you going to use these strengths and resources to overcome your obstacles in order to achieve these goals that get you closer to a life align with your core value.

[01:16:52] And I just call that the gold framework. Right? So after you do your, your core value, it's G O L D goals, obstacles, leverage, develop a plan.

[01:17:02] Josh: That's perfect. I love that. It's easy to remember and an easy, like five step, like get your core value and then figure out these five things. Like it's so simple. I think people love to overcomplicate shit. This makes it so simple. Um, and I kinda wanna just like rewind a little bit back here, and this might be something interesting.

[01:17:21] Um, we talked about sort of the, the Maslow's hierarchy of needs and like reaching that top pinnacle, right. Reaching the top of self actualization. That's what you are trying to help people do. That's what we're doing here, technically in this podcast is like between us talking about it and getting people closer to the top of that pyramid. And that's obviously what you do with coaching.

[01:17:39] and you kind of talked about something really interesting where people, people will think they're at the top, but they've plateaued at the esteem level. Now, do you think you have to be an entrepreneur? You have to be self-made whatever to get to self-actualization or are there people who are employees that can reach that or something else?

[01:18:01] Corey: So one for any of like the Maslow snobs, I know there's a lot more nuance with this and I know it can be controversial depending how you look at it. Um, but to answer your question, yes, you don't have to be an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs, just have a little bit more freedom to take those risks, right? So no, um, employees are, are completely capable of doing it.

[01:18:28] Hell man, monks can even do it. So part, so one of the fun things with like asceticism or like going into being a fucking Munk or some of the shit like that is they essentially achieve self-actualization by skipping a couple of the tiers, right?

[01:18:45] So they basically say, I don't need money. I don't need a claim from other people. So, because I don't need those, I can collapse the pyramid and get to the top quicker. That's more of like an edge case scenario, which is one reason why people go through a set of practices and shit.

[01:19:01] Josh: Yeah. But you also don't have to be a monk to do that. I just love the idea of skipping the steps and pulling that down. Like how can you just go around it instead of like calf to reach this and then this, And then this, I need to get all this money. You need to add stuff, add stuff, but how can you take things away to reach that top?

[01:19:17] That is an interesting and super powerful phenomenon right there.

[01:19:20] Corey: Yeah. And that's also getting into like some minimalism type shit too, to an extent. Um, so yeah, and that's more of like an edge case. And the other thing is like, with Maslow, this isn't like the whole thing with the hierarchy of needs, isn't necessarily a do this as step one and then do step two. It's more, so this is a pattern we've found that people do.

[01:19:43] Like, it's really hard to give a shit about having a good house when you can't breathe. Right. So like, you've literally have to have certain things first. Like you have to be able to do fucking breed. Like if I start to strangle you, you no longer give a shit about how much money you make.

[01:20:00] Josh: A sick person only wants one thing.

[01:20:02] Corey: exactly, it's that kind of shit, right? Like once you have these basic needs, then you can slowly move up. But, a lot of it, as far as self actualization thing, and again, I, I'm not like a Maslow expert, so I'm sure there's some other nuances with this.

[01:20:16] But from my perspective, what self-actualization is, is just doing what you are uniquely qualified to do, that gives you purpose that energizes you, right? Whatever that is. Right.

[01:20:30] That isn't dependent on being an entrepreneur or being the CEO of a billion dollar company or being an employee. Like that is anybody, anybody has the capability of doing work that matters. The main issue is overcoming the limiting beliefs and other obstacles that keep us from doing it right. Because some of us either we don't even recognize that it's possible for us. Right.

[01:20:56] So like, so like me, for example, the majority of my childhood friends are in prison, right? Like we were juvenile delinquents. The only difference was at a certain point, I went left when they went, right. like we had family who ran drugs, we got chased by authority sometimes, we would break into places and shit. So for, for those kids, the ones that are in prison now, all right, kids anymore, they're fucking in their thirties. But they wouldn't even think that it is possible for them to do something more.

[01:21:33] Or for people who they've worked the traditional nine to five, and that is just like, that is all they've ever thought about. And there's nothing wrong with that. But for a lot of people, they don't even think it is possible for them to do more. Right. So whether, whether it is you grew up poor as fuck and in out of prison, or you make a six figure salary. So many people have that limiting belief of I'm not capable of doing this, or this is out of my reach because this is only for a select group of people that I am not in.

[01:22:03] so, so we think that it isn't possible, or we chase the wrong shit. Right. We chase what we think we're supposed to want, rather than doing the deep work to figure out what the fuck we actually want. Right. There are. And just fear, like we know what we want, but we're deathly afraid of, of taking that risk and making a change to try to achieve it.

[01:22:25] Because like I said earlier, success, isn't guaranteed.

[01:22:28] Josh: True. And I think that just brings it back to like, if you are an employee and you're doing something, well, maybe you're not even getting paid the most amount of money, but you love what you're doing. Um, and you know, obviously all of your basic needs are met. And like, you think like, this is what you're made for obviously like, like you don't need to like go off and try to do something else.

[01:22:46] Right. You're like, Hey, like I have a great job. I love what I do have a great life, but I guess the distinction is when you feel like you're like super bored, you're like, I could be doing more like, oh my God, like I could be making way more, maybe not even money, but just like, if I were to do this my own way, I could make more money, be more free, have more free time, help people the way I want exactly like what you're doing. Yeah, you could have got that six-figure job, but now You can go off on your own, do something similar and start innovating, start doing different, start changing the way that the actual work is done.

[01:23:18] But where I think it's interesting as the people who get stuck again, it's like on that second to last level, it's like, you can either skip the middle chunk or you kind of get like stuck near the top, and a lot of people get too comfortable there. Right. Cause they do have a great paying job. You know, it's even bankers who are making fucking so much money, but they're miserable. And they're like, oh my God. But now they're stuck because now their lifestyle has I'm trapped. I think that's a big thing. It's like the fear of like being trapped, obviously like

[01:23:45] Corey: those like golden handcuffs,

[01:23:46] Josh: Yeah, the golden handcuffs dude. The golden prison. Their life becomes a golden prison where it's like, it's not just the, the, the work where that's the golden handcuffs, but now they've built themselves a golden prison. You know, you have a crazy mortgage, you have like a bunch of kids to pay for.

[01:24:01] You have like, you created this lifestyle that you thought you wanted and then you were like fucked. You're like, we're really trapped. I mean, I'm pretty young, so I'm definitely not anywhere near there, but like, I just feel so bad when I see people like that and like their middle ages and their like their fifties, or like, they just can't wait until retire.

[01:24:17] But it's like what you're talking about. Okay, you can retire. But then the very next week after retiring, you could get a diagnosis saying that you're going to die. Like then what was all this for? Figuring it out earlier on. Okay. What do I actually want again, skipping those steps. It's even like later in life of like, let's just skip the job. Like, what would that look like? Like what would retirement look like to you every day? But like, if you don't need to retire, right.

[01:24:41] Obviously there are things like, there are needs. If you're living in society, you need to make money. Like it's unfortunate, but that's like, you have to, like, it's kind of fucked up, but I don't want to get into other weird shit, we talked about monks and stuff? We don't need to talk about going to live on a commune and joins kind of cult or something. We don't need to get that far.

[01:24:59] Corey: So, but part of what you're, you're, you've talked about, like with bankers, so more and more bankers are having what they call a cardiac events, AK like low key heart attacks, um, in like their thirties and shit. Right. Because their jobs are so fucking stressful. Right. and when you talk about like golden handcuffs and prisons and shit entrepreneurs, Build businesses that turn into that, right?

[01:25:21] Like I've, I've, you know, I've worked with people who were just like, look, I make millions in revenue. I have, you know, a YouTube channel with millions of subscribers and I'll do all this other shit. I'm like backed by Google. I have all these other things, but I, but I don't want to do this anymore. Right.

[01:25:37] So it's just like, do I pivot my company? Do I sell it? Do I take more of just like, sort of like silent partner role? What do I do? Because what I've built feels like a prison now because I, I just I'm trapped, right.

[01:25:52] I worked with people where, um, they had, they were younger and like, you know, in their twenties and they were, you know, a very driven entrepreneur, built a couple of freelance based companies. And they're just like, I just, I don't fucking like it. Like, it just feels like a grind and it doesn't really move the needle toward a life aligned with what I give a shit about.

[01:26:16] So then just helping them clarify, like, okay, well, well, do you give a shit about, and one of them, they ended up their core value was authenticity. And they were like, look, all these other companies I've built these freelance businesses and all this other shit, it's lucrative. If I have a problem, I can throw money at it, but I don't like it.

[01:26:34] So by clarifying that their core value was authenticity, they ended up creating like a membership community for entrepreneurs and, you know, quote unquote wantrepreneurs is like an accelerated to help them. Like, here's all the resources you need, here's the community to back you up. And now they're making a fuck ton of money doing shit that they love every single day shit that they would do, even if they didn't get paid because they built it around what fundamentally resonates with them.

[01:27:03] So again, like my whole framework, like it isn't about, you know, taking a fucking vow of poverty. Like it is about making money. It's just about making money, doing meaningful shit.

[01:27:14] Josh: Yeah. exactly. Exactly. If you're going to make the money, regardless, whether, again, it's like what you said before. Like what kind of shit are you willing to take? Like you're going to, to suffer in some degree, like whether you're, you know, to make the money, but you can also like make the money and do what you love at the same time.

[01:27:29] I know that's kind of, it sounds like a load of shit too. Like, oh, make money doing what you love. But like the whole point is like it's possible. And the craziest thing is the people who are having the most fun, they're making the most amount of money.

[01:27:39] Like, and it's like that compounding effect too, right? It's like, they're the law. I can't remember, uh, what it is, but it's like from, from the Bible, those who have, will continue to have, right? Like you go on this positive trajectory of like, you love what you're doing, you're gonna make more money, So you're gonna keep doing it. And it's just, it compounds there. Right? Somehow all the most famous people, the richest people get everything for free. It's kind of fucked up kind of weird, but it's just the way the world works, right.

[01:28:06] So what you're really saying here too, is like what stops people from really getting there is just a limiting belief. It's just fear, right?

[01:28:16] How do you break through that fear? How do you reach that level? And maybe you, like, we can get into this, you talk about the four horsemen of fear. Let's get into that. There's a through line through all of this. Like there's only a certain amount of things that would stop you. How do you get past that?

[01:28:31] Corey: Yeah. So before you can overcome fear, you have to understand like the fear itself, right? Like you have to define what the fuck are you afraid of? Like you mentioned, I call the four most common limiting beliefs that hold people back, uh, the four horsemen of fear that was called like a four horsemen of the apocalypse

[01:28:48] So the first one is just fear of failure, right? Like everybody you're familiar with fear of failure, right? Like what if I'm not good enough? What if this doesn't work out, that's a super common one. Everybody knows, then there's fear of uncertainty. Right. Which is, should I go left or right. Which decision should I make?

[01:29:04] Which, you know, should I pivot or keep going this way? Right. Which software do I need to pick up? Which this, which that, right. Like you can get into like pre optimizing or, you know, analysis paralysis. Right. Of just like, I don't know which way to go. So I'm afraid to make a decision either way. Cause what if it's the wrong decision?

[01:29:26] So that stops a lot of people, you know, or I hear people all the time say, I just don't know how to do that. Like all that'd be so cool to do. I just, I don't even, I don't even know where to begin. Right. Um, I had one of my friends do that. He texted me. He's like, Hey man, what resources do you have about the algorithm?

[01:29:45] I was like, what the fuck do you mean? I was like, do you mean like social media algorithms? He's like, yeah. I don't know where to start. I'm like, bro, like that's, there's not the algorithm. Big can fuck a platform first. Like

[01:29:58] this is a

[01:29:59] Josh: he was getting really deep, the algorithm of life or something.

[01:30:03] Corey: he's just trying to start like his own shit. And it's just like, dude, that is. Not as simple question to answer. Um, but it was just like, he didn't even know where to start. Like do pick a, a platform first and then slowly figuring out best practices for that. And then branch out, um, just simple shit. Um, then there's fear of ridicule, right?

[01:30:23] So if you're a ridicule, is when you are afraid of what critics might say, right. Well, what were my friends and family think? What will, how will the market react, right? Like, what is about this? What about that? And we get so afraid of catastrophizing and thinking about like, well, what might somebody think or say that we don't fucking do anything at all.

[01:30:47] Right? Cause we just, we, we stay in the shadows, we stay silent. We keep ourselves super small because we're afraid of ridicule, ridicule. We're afraid of being criticized. And then the fourth one, which is the, a really common one that a lot of people don't even recognize is fear of success. Right? And the worst thing with this, you're like, Corey, why the fuck would I be afraid to get the thing that I say I want?

[01:31:13] And there's a couple of reasons. One, a lot of people believe that they don't deserve success, right? Either believe that they're not good enough or they believe that they're not smart enough or they don't deserve. To join this group of elite people in their niche, right? Like, oh, I'm not anywhere near as good as them.

[01:31:39] Like, you know, I don't deserve to be there. Or if you've never achieved like major success, it's really easy to see success as like a binary before and after. So there's the before success version of me, which is what I'm familiar with. And then there's the after success version of me. And that version is foreign it's alien.

[01:32:02] I don't know that, that version of me. Right. So, because we're afraid of that. We drag our feet. We, we procrastinate. We, we push things off to delay crossing that threshold of success.

[01:32:16] Josh: Interesting. So that almost like directly ties right into the fear of uncertainty too. Right.

[01:32:20] Because you you're uncertain of what's going to happen after you

[01:32:24] Corey: Potentially right. Fear of uncertainty is usually I'm at a fork of going left or right. I don't know which way to go. Fear of success is okay. If I succeed either. If I succeed, what happens or if I succeed, this will happen. And I don't know how to deal with it. Like one of the guys I worked with, he's like, look, man, I've been an underdog my whole life.

[01:32:48] What happens when the dog like catches the. Well, I like, what if I lose my ambition or, you know, if power corrupts, what if I gain all this power as far as influence within my niche and people hang on my every word, I'm not prepared to deal with that level of either celebrity or influence. Um, and I'm afraid that, you know, I, not that I'm, uh, I'm a corrupt person and I'm afraid that, that I would have, there would be unintended consequences to my words.

[01:33:24] Right. Or, you know, if, if I, if I achieve success, that means that I plateau, like I've peaked. So there's nothing beyond that. Right? Like after I climbed the mountain, there's nothing left. Like I'm at the top. Right. So, because people have these fears, it usually leads to self-sabotaging behaviors. Right? So like, you know, imposter syndrome and perfectionism is just like, oh, well I'm not good enough yet.

[01:33:53] Or my product, my article, my thing isn't good enough yet. So in order to avoid either fear of success or fear of failure, I'm just not going to, to go through with it. Right. Um, or procrastination there, there are a lot of these self-sabotage behaviors that the whole point of them is to help you avoid the thing you're afraid of.

[01:34:18] Right. Let's so if you, if you procrastinate, if you never hit publish. Then, or if you never put out your offer, you can't fail and you can't succeed. So it's just it's okay. Right. Um, if you're afraid of ridicule, it's like, oh, this isn't good enough yet. Like I need to make it a little bit better and maybe make a little bit better.

[01:34:36] And you just, you keep pre optimizing or you keep just doing all this perfectionism bullshit to avoid risking being ridiculed, for example. Right. So it depends on the individual as far as like how these fears come up and like what self-sabotaging behaviors they, they lead to. But a really simple thing you can ask yourself to figure out of what's going on is how does this relate to my fear, right?

[01:35:04] Like, so it isn't that you necessarily need a better system, right. When you're procrastinating it's how does procrastinating relate to your fear? Right. And when you start to understand that you can start to slowly, as you develop insight into that, you can start kind of course correcting, right? So there's this thing that, um, we would do back one of the therapy that a lot of health psychologists do where let's say, you're, you know, you're struggling with obesity or just, you know, you want to lose weight or whatever.

[01:35:33] One of the first things they'll have you do is keep like a diet journal. Right? So all you do is write down what your. You don't try to change anything. You don't exercise more. You don't eat less. It's just write down what the fuck you're eating and what inevitably happens with most people is they naturally lose weight because just by learning to focus and be more aware of what's going on, it helps you kind of regain control and kind of course, correct a little bit as you go.

[01:36:03] So with this, it isn't even like, okay, well, how can I stop procrastinating so much as first you need to figure out why you're procrastinating, right. Going back to that functional analysis, what function does procrastinating serve? What function does this imposter syndrome or this perfectionism or this, what the fuck ever serve by some people they overcomplicate shit.

[01:36:25] Right? Like, I hear that a lot of like, you know, one of the major obstacles is I just, I over-complicate everything. How does it relate to your fear? Oh, well I have a fear of uncertainty, so I need to be super fucking certain before I make any decision. Right. So that's my overcomplicate because I'm trying to think at all these, what if scenarios?

[01:36:44] So then the question becomes, okay, what is the minimum amount of information you need to make a, an initial decision and then you can collect more info feedback iterate as you go. But what is the minimum amount to take one step forward?

[01:37:00] Josh: Interesting. So You get people to journalists, they'll, you'll get people to kind of, yeah, they can. they'll be like, that's one way of doing this. So that's a really great, actionable thing is like, if you don't already journal, like just obviously journal, I journal mostly every day or every night, but I think I told you this on a previous call, I'm like, I want to add this to my journal template in notion of just like, okay, like what are these unhealthy behaviors?

[01:37:22] Like, whatever it is. And how does it relate to my fear? Like almost having like a fear journal, you know, there's like you talked about the, the diet journaling. Um, it's really interesting to have like a fear journal of how this actually relates. And then is it possible that there could be multiple fears unlike the core values where like you talked about one, is it possible that it could be a mix of fears?

[01:37:44] Corey: Yeah. And, and you know, most of the shit, you know, I don't really talk in black and white terms. Right. In absolute terms. That's again, like if you want to journal cool. If you just wanna think about it, cool, whatever the fuck works for you, right. For these spheres, they're not mutually exclusive. You can have all of them at the same time or week to week, they could change depending on the situation in your own life circumstances.

[01:38:03] Right. Or your goals. Right.

[01:38:05] Josh: Um, but identifying whatever it is,

[01:38:07] Corey: Correct. As, and same thing like with that goals framework, usually whatever goal somebody comes in with on week one by week three or four, they've got a different goal because they gain more clarity. They figured out all, well, that goal didn't actually move me closer.

[01:38:22] This one does. Or, you know, I achieved that goal. So this is a new one. So it is all meant to be as flexible as possible, which is why I focus much more on. Asking questions then giving answers, right? Because the right question will give you way more clarity than an answer

[01:38:40] Josh: Right because of the answer has to come from within. As guru as that sounds, but

[01:38:45] it's there. Yeah.

[01:38:46] Corey: that, and you can ask that question over and over again, and the context will change.

[01:38:51] Right? So, so just like that, like how does this relate to my fear week one to week 20 to April, to December to whatever the fuck, that same question can give you a fuck ton of insight and different insight.

[01:39:03] Every time you ask it, but it's the same fucking question.

[01:39:07] Josh: Huge. Okay. So that was massive. Cause I think that's the biggest thing. Just like any other behavioral, like we talked about this way earlier, it's about identifying us number one, to becoming aware, obviously like getting people to become aware of what this is, and that is super fucking powerful. I mean, that is huge.

[01:39:22] Next up though. There's all these fears. How do you actually get rid of fear in general. Like a lot of these are like kind of bullshit, right? Like you have the fear of it, but it might not be real, like sure. There could be ridiculed. Like one of my friends or family think I'm weird. Who fucking cares. I saw like a tick talkers.

[01:39:40] Like let, let people think you're cringy. It's like, do your thing. Make tick talks, do a podcast. I'm sure my fucking first 10 podcasts, one of them could have been cringy. Like I started making videos online. Like people writing, like whatever it is you want to do, like, let people think you're fucking cringey who gives a shit, but that's not easy.

[01:39:56] It's easy to just say, but it's hard to like actually internalize and do so. How can you actually like, not maybe remove the fear center? Sure. There's like some kind of Labatt me ways of doing that. But for example, I don't know if you've seen free solo. Have you seen the rockclimbing documentary Free Solo?

[01:40:13] Alex Honnold like this world-class, uh, rock climber. He climbed, uh, El Capitan without any harnesses, free soloing, literally, but that's like fucking fear. Like it's ridiculous. And then there's a part in the documentary where, um, he basically gets his brain scan to see like where the fear center is and his brain.

[01:40:32] And how is it like, um, how does it light up compared to others and the doctors basically like you don't have. The sphere center, whatever that is that most people would have. And then he kind of questioned it, like, is that, was I born with that? Or was it because I kept climbing and I kept practicing and eventually stopped using the car.

[01:40:49] And it says, and just going like day by day, does it eventually just go away? So is it possible through this fear that you can kind of get rid of it just by doing it again, example like the fear of ridicule just by posting your 10 YouTube videos over and over and over again, it's like a muscle of like, you know, you're, you're building up this muscle against fear.

[01:41:09] Like, is there a way that you help people with the other three fear, um, for your types to kind of get past them or like maybe remove that part of their brain when they know it's not useful anymore.

[01:41:22] Corey: Yeah. So with him specifically who the fuck knows rally our brain chemistry is weird and I'm not a neuro guy. However, generally speaking, anxiety within like a normal limit, right? So the way I'm defining normal, think of it like a bell curve, right?

[01:41:38] So the majority that is considered what's called normative, AKA, normally, meaning that is the majority of people. When you're talking about pathology, you're talking about like the tail end, right?

[01:41:47] So there's a difference between being, having, like, being anxious versus having like generalized anxiety disorder. Right. Everybody experiences, anxiety sometimes. Right. But in order for it to be a diagnosis, it's gotta be way worse, last way longer or happen way more often than quote unquote normal. Okay. So when it comes to normal anxiety, is usually a luxury. And what I mean by that is you're anxious because you have the luxury to sit around and catastrophize.

[01:42:16] Okay. Again, normal anxiety. So the. Solution to that is to not sit around. Right. So the opposite is to take action. Right? So action can solve normal anxiety. A lot of times I cannot stress enough. I'm talking about normal fucking anxiety. Don't come at me with the PTSD people and shit. So normal anxiety is a luxury, right?

[01:42:41] So I'll give an example. So like I personally, I'm not a fan of flying. Okay. I'll do it. If I need to. I just, I don't fucking like it. Right. It's just the sensation. Just, I don't like it. The whoosh fucks me up. I don't do roller coasters either. Like, absolutely don't fuck with them. So if I were to wait in line for a rollercoaster, let's say I'm not taking action.

[01:43:02] Like I'm just sitting around thinking and getting anxious as fuck. Versus if I actually got on one, eventually I would, I would acclimate, like I would have been weight to that thing and it wouldn't get as bad. Right. The first time I flew, I was anxious as fuck. And once I got on the plane, it's, I'm going to suck the whole time.

[01:43:20] I fucking hated the whole thing. However, by flight number four, I was like, okay, this still sucks. But it isn't like crippling, right? Like, cause I took action. I was doing the thing and eventually, cause I couldn't worry as much anymore cause I was taking action. Right. But if I'm sitting around thinking about what might happen, what could happen, I'm just, I'm I'm suffering when nothing's going on.

[01:43:44] Right. I have the luxury to sit around and fuck off and think about worst case scenarios.

[01:43:47] Josh: Or worse, you're suffering multiple times

[01:43:50] Corey: Correct. That's some stoicism type shit. Yeah.

[01:43:52] That's a stoicism type shit. Right? what's the fucking point, right? Like if you're going to suffer, suffer once not twice. And so, so there's that right? So taking action can help a lot.

[01:44:03] Another thing to keep in mind is there's a difference between fear and danger. Okay. And what I mean by that is they don't go together necessarily. Right. So if I pointed a gun at you, that would probably induce fear, generally speaking. But if it was a fake gun, but you didn't know that you would experience fear, even though you're not in danger, it's fake gun.

[01:44:35] I can't fucking kill you with it. There's no danger, but you don't know that. So because of your perception, you experience fear, the opposite can also be true, right? Like you can be in straight up fucking danger and not know it and not experience fear. Right. Um, you know, like I know people who are really privileged and disconnected, those motherfuckers will walk through a hood and not recognize that this isn't where you want to be.

[01:45:02] Okay. Like they don't even, it's just like, no girl, like you are a legitimate danger right now. We need to fucking go. So part of it is reminding yourself that you're not in danger. We are rarely in danger in modern society, right? Like we're rarely getting chased by a fucking bear or a fucking line or some shit.

[01:45:19] Right. But we experienced fear all the time. Right. And exam can cause you to be super anxious, right. A job interview makes your hands sweaty. Right. Like all of these bullshit things that aren't dangerous, provoke fear in us. Okay. So learn to, so just simply remind yourself, like, Hey, I'm not in danger right now.

[01:45:42] This isn't that big of a fucking deal that can help. Okay. And then as far as like these, like the four horsemen themselves, so one core value again is the thing I come back to because fear makes us shortsighted. And what I mean by that is it makes us focus on the here and now of like this individual fear and what might happen.

[01:46:05] But when we remember our core value, we can take a longer-term vision of like, okay, yes, I'm afraid. But the long-term impact of what I'm trying to do while I'm trying to build is more important than this immediate fear. So it is worth facing my fear and working to push through it because it's worth it in the end.

[01:46:26] So again, that's why I come back to core value shift. Like me with micro valley freedom and doing this coaching shit and everything else. I do, you know, sometimes I struggle to hit publish on an article cause I'm like, oh, this isn't as good as I want it to be. Or what people say or does that, but I'm like, fuck them Well, this is my way to help other people build their own version of freedom and, and be more intentional with how they live, work and create that kind of thing. Right. So even though I experienced this fear, I remind myself that is worth pushing through because of the end goal that I'm ultimately striving to achieve.

[01:46:57] Another one is fear inoculation, right? So, you know, you've heard like fear setting and shifts. So fear, inoculation work similar lead to like a vaccine, right? So if I'm not a fucking vaccine expert, but generally with vaccines, right. They introduce a little bit of the thing in a, in a safe, controlled environment.

[01:47:18] So you can like build up an immunity. So if you ever come across the real thing, it's not nearly as, as, as bad, right. It's a very, very simplified version of it. So fear inoculation is okay, what are you afraid of now? Let's assume that the thing you're most afraid of actually happens with that assumption, what the fuck is your plan?

[01:47:42] How are you going to deal with it? Right. So let's say you fail. Okay. What the fuck are you going to do? How are you going to take that feedback? Use it as, as data, as information, and then course correct for version two, right? How are we going to pivot? How are you going to iterate? If you make the wrong decisions, same deal.

[01:47:59] If you were uncertain and you ended up, you chose the wrong fucking path, how can you course correct? If you succeed and then you lose your ambition, how the fuck are you going to get it back? Can you surround yourself with high achievers who have already achieved success yet are continuing on in their journey to level up because they're like, look, once you, you know, scale your first mountain, you recognize that you're at the bottom of the mountain range.

[01:48:24] There's plenty of more shit that you can do now that you've crossed that initial threshold. if people hang on your every word, okay, how are you going to deal with that level? You know, of authority, right? What is your plan to stay humble, to, to choose wisdom over influence that kind of shit. you know, if, if people do talk shit about the thing you've created, okay, what the fuck are you going to do?

[01:48:45] What is your plan to deal with that criticism, right? Is that criticism warranted or is it just coming from bullshit, armchair quarterbacks who don't mean fuck all to the world because they're just miserable. Shitbags trying to troll somebody, right? Nipsey hussle has this quote. you will never be criticized by somebody doing more than you. You will only be criticized by somebody doing less than you.

[01:49:06] Motherfuckers who criticized, by and large, aren't doing a goddamn thing with their lives. So their fucking opinion just doesn't matter. Okay. So going through these fear setting exercises, does the sphere inoculation helps you make the unknown known and then it helps you come up with a plan to deal with it, right?

[01:49:26] Because fundamentally we fear the unknown, The uncertainty, the ridicule, what if they do this? What if I succeed? What if I fail? All of this is just fear of the unknown. So the more you can break it down and make that unknown known and concrete, and then come up with a game plan to deal with it.

[01:49:42] It's so much less scary because now, you know, you know, you can deal with it. You know, you have a plan, you know, ultimately it's not a life or death thing most of the time.

[01:49:54] So those are some of the ones. And then the last one that I personally use a lot, because again, I'm a big momento mori guy, right.

[01:50:00] Um, So last year I almost died. Long story short, I had an infection that while I had a bruise that turned into an infection, I didn't know it, uh, I just thought it was just a super bad bruise, waited too long to go to the doctor.

[01:50:15] And by the time I got to the hospital, they're like, look, if this has gotten into like your bloodstream or your bones, you could die. beds were full. So they, they immediately tried to transfer me for surgery. Um, they had taken labs, they hadn't gotten it back yet. So we didn't know if it had gotten, you know, become life-threatening or not, but it's super fucking painful.

[01:50:37] Um, and it was all up my leg, like basically like my ankle to my knee was just super infective shit. and you know, COVID type shit. So all the beds were full. So I had to wait in, in this room with an IV drip of antibiotics that weren't doing anything. Like I wasn't responsive for like 12 or 16 hours or some shit, like a full fucking day.

[01:50:57] Pretty much finally got transferred to, the hospital for surgery. And I had to wait for the next day, um, for like the surgeons to be there. So I remember setting in the hospital, um, in the hospital bed at night, no visitors really alone with just like the occasional nurse checking vitals and then this big BP machine to keep me company.

[01:51:19] And I remember thinking what if this had been my last week alive? Like I could die tomorrow because I don't know if it's gotten into my bloodstream or my bones yet. And, you know, like I'm, I'm in my early thirties, like you don't think about the kind of shit when you're younger. And I remember thinking back like, okay, if the last seven days were the last on this earth, am I satisfied with how I spent my time?

[01:51:46] And again, this is after I'd quit, you know, fuck with therapy. I was riding, I was coaching, I work from home. So if I wanted to go get lunch, you know, walk to the kitchen and, you know, make lunch with my girlfriend, I could do that. You know, spending time with family, friends, whatever. And I remember thinking if I go out, I'm satisfied with my last week of life this week, you know, different week may have been a different answer.

[01:52:08] And I like this thought exercise because, you know, you've probably heard of like, oh, if you had a month to live, what would you do? That's a bullshit thought experiment. Because if you know what's going to happen, you can go out with a bang, right? Like you can blow your money and go sky diving, fuck all, tell your balls to shove it up their ass, whatever. That isn't really helpful.

[01:52:25] It's much more helpful to think about if you can't redo anything, your current life, what worked, what didn't, because you can immediately pinpoint all the bullshit you accepted into your life, into your schedule, that you didn't need to, all the things you wish you could have done more of the people you wish you would've called one more time.

[01:52:45] All that kind of shit. So since then, clearly I didn't fucking die. Cause I'm here. Since then.

[01:52:51] Josh: Thank God you're here, man. Fuck.

[01:52:54] Corey: Oh, thanks. But since then, that is the question. I ask myself all the fucking time. Okay. Because sometimes bullshit creeps in like bullshit, inevitably creeps into your fucking life. Right. That's where you got to be on top of it.

[01:53:06] So for me, anytime I start to get afraid of something, my, my thing is like, okay, but if this is my lesson would go live, like, would I be satisfied with letting that fear stop me or not? And ultimately it's like, look, man, I have butted up against death's door of like, I could fucking die this piddly as fear pales in comparison to the fact that I, 100% will die one day.

[01:53:30] So fuck them. Fuck fear. Fuck critics, fuck uncertainty, all this other bullshit. Anytime it creeps in, I'm like, look, I'm going to die one day. Is this worth me spending my time on or not? And if it is, fuck any kind of fear that tries to stand in my way. That is my approach.

[01:53:48] And again, man, like, that's why I write what I write, I do what I do, because it's all about like, we're all going to die one day. And that isn't meant to be like depressing or, or, you know, morbid or anything it's meant to be like, look. This should a lot of fire under your ass to do shit that is worth doing, to overcome fear, to think bigger, to do work that fucking matters. Because at some point we're all going to be on our death bed looking back at our life. Some of us are gonna look back with regret. Some of us are gonna look back and be fucking proud and content because we know that we built a legacy and did work that mattered throughout our life.

[01:54:25] Josh: Dude. That's like Mike drop. Like I could literally turn off this podcast and just stop recording. And that was just fucking epic. And first of all, I'm going to just the mindset of flipping it on your head, not if you had six months to live, but if the last seven days where all you had or like going to bed every night being like, I'm not going to wake up tomorrow, did I have a great day?

[01:54:48] Did I, was I happy with how this day ended up, dude, again, adding that to my journal template every night, I'm not waking up tomorrow. Was I happy with this day? Ending it off that way. Shit, dude, that's super fucking powerful.

[01:55:01] And I think like this is actually a really good segue getting into now the course, because this is how you want to start giving people. You want to give people this, you gave this to me, one-on-one and now you're giving it to many who are going to be listening to it. You've been doing it one-on-one and now you're building out this cool to help people go through that.

[01:55:19] I want you to walk me through it. What are they going to be learning? What are people going to be going through? How did you decide to do it? I just really want to dig into this now because what this really comes down to now is about impact. Again, if you're going to die, like let's just say, hopefully not, but something else happens, you know, you will have something that will outlive you as well.

[01:55:39] Right? Ideally you have content online. You have things that outlive you, but I want to get into this, this course, man. I really want to dig it right into how you're going to be setting this thing up, how you're going to be taking everything. We were just talking about all the teachings and how you're going to be packaging this thing up. Cause I really want to kind of understand, um, your thought process about, doing a cohort based course rather than some random evergreen course that you just online for people to go through.

[01:56:04] Corey: Yeah. So, you know, I may do an evergreen course at some point because those are really good. Um, divorce time from income. And I had originally planned to do this course as a self-paced course, but the more I got into it, the more I realized the real benefit of a cohort based course of a CBC is the community and not the actual content. Now that isn't a cop out to put out bullshit content.

[01:56:28] So some of the CVCs I took I've taken so far are like David Pearl's, Rite of passage. It's a phenomenal course. If you want to become like an online writer, um, all the adults part-time youtuber academy, that was super good to like break into YouTube and learn the ins and outs of it.

[01:56:46] Um, and a handful of other courses. and the main thing, like, yes, I learned a lot, like with like the live sessions and I got a lot of resources and shit, and those are all super cool and very, very valuable alone. They were worth the price tag of whatever the fuck it was for each course. But the real value for CBCs is the community, right?

[01:57:09] So like I said, early on, I have no business background, everything I've, I've learned. I had to like fucking Frankenstein together since losing my job. A large part of what has helped me get to this particular point in my professional career since leaving my job just like in therapy is the people I met.

[01:57:33] I don't have like, quote-unquote IRL friends who are entrepreneurs, really. I have plenty of people who like want to do it, who talk about it all the fucking time. And they're super solid friends otherwise. Right? Like they helped me move. If I'm broken down, there's a motherfuckers, I'm more call, right? Like funny the how to body, potentially. Those was the first one gonna call.

[01:57:52] Right. But when it comes to business and, and, you know, figuring this shit out and being like an online creator and things, there's just not the people that can help me with that. They just, they fundamentally don't get it, all the people I now talk to on. Cause I'm mostly active on like Twitter and shit.

[01:58:11] Um, and other communities I'm in all of these people who I support them and they support me, these mastermind groups, these whatever the fuck else are, all people I've met within the last year, year and a half almost through CBC's I've taken. Right. And even like, we talked earlier about like my coaching offer, I came up with the monthly retainer after talking to a coach who makes fucking bank doing what she does.

[01:58:38] And she was like, I do a monthly retainer. And I met her, I think, through Rite of passage because she was also wanting to write more. Right. So like, yeah, we're both. We, we joined it as aspiring writers, but we were also entrepreneurs, but she was just way the fuck further ahead than me. And she was like, Hey, let me help you out.

[01:58:57] And I helped her out and it was. So many of my friends now I met through CBC's. So I revamped it to have more of an emphasis on the community because the course is just going to go through my one-on-one coaching framework. Right? Like that's pretty much it in that I know the shit works for individuals and I know people pay good money for the one-on-one experience for all of these frameworks, right?

[01:59:21] The, the clarifying your core value, great. And goals, obstacles, leverage developing plans, all of the shit, working through the four horsemen of fear, um, working through other limiting beliefs and other obstacles that could get in your way, right. How to, how to do like, basically like auditing all your strengths and resources, But the main benefit of a CBC is that you're joining a, a community of other entrepreneurs who are on the path toward being more intentional for building fulfilling lives and businesses. Right? So for me, that is much more valuable than just a self-paced course of here's my coaching framework one and done, right.

[02:00:02] One completion rate of self-paced courses is super fucking low, right? Like I'm looking at a post-it note I have right now with seven, a self-paced courses I'm yet to finish, right. That I'm like, Hey, remember to do these motherfucker. Cause it's just like, they're sitting in a folder, right? Like I can . Do many times.

[02:00:20] A CBC on the other hand it's live, right. So it is a three week sprint or a five week sprint. It helps you hold yourself accountable because you're a member of a community, right. It's like, Hey, this is your assignment this week. Or, Hey, we're all meeting at this time to talk about this thing. Right. So there's a lot more support and accountability that you get with the CBC that you just do not get with a self-paced course.

[02:00:46] So my plan is to pack everything from like 15 years of studying and then later practicing psychology, into a five week course. so the current plan is like two, two hour sessions a week. and my current plan is to do the first hour, like interactive lecture.

[02:01:09] So like here are concepts who are frameworks. All right. Let's go into like breakout rooms and, and talk about them or refine them. Cause it's all about refining your, your thought process and helping you develop the skills to go out and then build, you know, what I call an intentional life, right? Like a life that is built around your core value that is fundamentally fulfilling, that resonates with you, and that is fulfilling for you. Right? What business opportunities can you take advantage of or create that align with this, that support the life you actually want to live. Right. That kind of shit. Um, and the second hour is just like he call office hours or live Q and a. So that way I make sure everybody's, questions and specific situations get addressed, right?

[02:01:49] Like that is my correct and exactly. Right. And cause to get like doing as much with the community aspect as possible. Um, and we do that for five weeks. Now I could turn it into a, you know, it could've turned into like a two week or three week thing, but again, the main purpose isn't to shove a shit ton of information down your throat, it is to build comradery, to build this community and hopefully collaborations and partnerships also come out of this.

[02:02:17] Right. So like, yeah, I'm sure there'll be plenty of solar preneurs going in. We weren't necessarily trying to build major companies, but it's also like, imagine, you know, if, if you met somebody else who's in a similar industry or who has complimentary skills to what you're currently looking for and trying to build, and you both have,

[02:02:35] again, complimentary either the same or a similar core value. And you're like, you're both like, fuck man, this is the impact I want to make that I can't make on my own, but you and me together can a 100% achieve this. Right. And then partnerships that come out of that. So my goal is for it to be, and again, these, these terms get thrown around, but sort of like an equal parts sort of mastermind, incubator and accelerator in that the, the tight-knit community aspects of a mastermind, the resources of an incubator.

[02:03:06] Right? So for people who are either new in this current business or looking for a way to pivot their current one, right? So that, that incubator part of like, what do you need to go? Right? And then the, the pieces of an accelerator of, okay, you know, where you're going, you just need kind of gas through for that fire, right.

[02:03:27] To throw on that fire. So that is, those are the pieces of those that I'm trying to put into this course through building a community of engaged, supportive, and high achieving entrepreneurs in the thing that they have in common is. Is these lectures is, is the actual content of the course so that everybody has a shared language and they have shared frameworks, but again, they're frameworks, they're not fucking rules.

[02:03:55] They're not gospel, they're not anything rigid. It's just like, here's a framework. Form it to fit whatever your current situation is, and then we have this community of all these people who are dedicated to doing work that is fulfilling and positively impactful for the world. Right?

[02:04:13] So the big emphasis is clarity, courage and community are the three things that I'm really focusing on is like the clarity on like what you want to do and how to do it, the courage to do it, to overcome the fears and then the community to support you along the way. Right? So that's the current plan and that is why the five weeks, one, it's a five step framework, but then also five weeks really helps you develop comradery with this community.

[02:04:41] And then obviously it, the community itself would continue on I'm planning to use circle, um, so that you would continue with the community long after the actual, like live pieces, um, finished for that cohort. And then when subsequent cohorts run through, they'll go through the actual live course and then they would get funneled to like the alumni community. So trying to, to put as much emphasis on the community as I can, rather than just, you know, a bunch of dry fucking like.

[02:05:10] Josh: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think we talked about this before. You're going to learn so much by doing it live every time. Like you're going to do iterations of it. Then by the next one, it will be better. It'll be a little bit different. You'll learn from that one. And it'll just keep evolving. Then, who knows? Maybe by like third, fifth, six, whatever you figure. Okay. Like this is kind of it. Maybe I will package this into like an evergreen course that could sell online and again, divorce your time from income and continue to do the cohort based courses as well. And then you have, I'm sure it's still doing the one-on-one. I don't see you wanting to stop that. Like, do you, do you have any plans to stop the one-on-ones.

[02:05:44] Corey: No. Um, I would probably reduce, uh, the, the number of one-on-one clients I work with, but my emphasis will moving forward will be on building and growing the CBC because, um, just so I can, I can affect that change at a larger scale than I currently can just doing one-on-one shit. Cause I, I didn't know, they love the intimacy of one-on-one coaching and I still want to do that, but I also really love teaching.

[02:06:13] So like throughout grad school, I taught like college psychology courses. Um, when I did therapy, I ran a bunch of therapy groups. So I love the group atmosphere and the dynamic and being able to like share actionable practical, you

[02:06:28] know, strategies and pieces of information. Um, and a CBC just kind of allows me to, to do all that.

[02:06:33] Josh: It's the perfect mesh, right? Because like, even if you're doing like YouTube, like theoretically you have like mass scale, like if you have like a video that goes viral or even TikTok, whatever you get something that has like 20 million views. And there's like something that you're teaching and you're gonna affect mass scale, but you personally, you're not going to get the same feedback from doing it live in front of an audience, so to speak, of like, you're getting their feedback, whether it's on zoom or online, or it is in person, you kind of just do it and took a little black hole and you're not getting any feedback.

[02:07:02] So yeah, totally man. It's like a perfect mesh of like getting scale, but you're also getting a little bit of that one-on-one energy from the people, because I'm sure that's super important, right? Like you can talk about the stuff you can write about it. You can make videos about it, but I'm sure it's not the same as when you're actually getting people's feedback.

[02:07:19] Corey: Yeah, the community aspect and just the live environment is so huge. And you know, some CBC's aren't well done is pretty much here's the lecture. Here's another lecture do this assignment. Here's another lecture. And there's not a lot of, like, you don't feel like you are part of something. You just feel like you're just kind of going through the motions.

[02:07:43] And again, that's why I pull from places like Rite of passage part-time utuber academy. And I'm even, um,

[02:07:51] Josh: the best of the best, you know, they're like

[02:07:53] Corey: that. And like trends, trends, isn't a CBC, um, it's like a subscription newsletter community type deal. but it's really cool. Cause like they're super supportive. Right. And so kind of taking the best pieces of those three sort of communities and businesses and saying like, okay, what did they do really well that I can emulate? And then where can I improve or inject my own perspectives, personality, frameworks, you know, things like that into it. So that's, that's my current goal.

[02:08:24] Josh: that's awesome, man. So I guess this is a good time to kind of at least plug, like where can people, if they're interested in this, like, is there somewhere they can sign up to get early access or at least get like a notification?

[02:08:34] Corey: Yeah. So the simplest way for now is to just subscribe to my newsletter. Um, and we can put a link in it. Um, but like, so my handle across social media, um, website, all that other shit is just Cory Wilks, psy.D. Because my doctorate is a doctor of psychology society. Um, so you just go to like coreywilkspsyd.com/newsletter. You'll go there.

[02:08:57] Cause my newsletter would be the first to kind of, um, hear about updates and shit. I'm currently building the, like the signup page, which is why I don't have it to like say right now, but once I get I'm sure we put in a description later.

[02:09:10] for this first cohort. I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I would highly recommend people go through the first one because like the founders cohort will get a lot more bonuses to kind of incentivize, to be like an early adopter of the course, probably going to cap it around like 20 or 30.

[02:09:29] and the current price for this initial cohort is going to be 1500. Um, full price will slowly go up to like three grand and upwards. And again, look at any of the good CBCs and they're more than that. Um, so this first cohort will be like essentially half price and get a shit ton more. I'm currently going to offer, um, some more personalized content for everybody who joins.

[02:09:54] so again, just a sign up for the newsletter and then whenever the signup pages is live, it'll be in the description for this

[02:10:01] Josh: Perfect. I'm going to put those links down there. And I know right now you also have a self-paced like sort of like mini course. Do you want me to link that as well? For people who want to get on and go through this?

[02:10:11] Corey: Yeah. So the, so I created a micro course just around, um, how to clarify your core value. Okay. So the difference between the micro course and the CBC, the CBC also goes through how to clarify your core value and then how to actually build your life and business aligned with that core value. Right? So the CBC is way more.

[02:10:33] Practical like a lot more like how to actually build from there. But if you only want to clarify your core value, or if you just wanna kind of dip your toes into the framework that I use, the micro course, uh, is a super good starting point. It's way, way cheaper. I think it's currently like 19, 20 bucks or something.

[02:10:50] Um, and it is, I put it as a Notion doc. So it's, it's super interactive. If you already use notion, you can pull like all the questions and shit to like, you know, your homepage or if you want to add it to like your daily journal prompts and shit, like I did it so it's super, super easy for you as a user. Um, and I basically just took all of the prompts I use in one-on-one coaching and put them all in like a step-by-step, um, sort of color by number framework within

[02:11:18] notion because you took it

[02:11:19] Josh: Yeah. I went through it like pretty high level, just over the weekend when you send it to me before we did this I really want to just kind of go through it but I'm going to go deeper on that this week. I'm actually going on vacation on Friday and I'm like, this is like the perfect time to go through something like this. You know, I have the time, the space and mental clarity to really go through it. So I'm going to be diving super deep into that. Maybe I'll message you when I'm, when I'm going through it. And I'd love to hear your thoughts and maybe get your feedback on some of that stuff. Cause I'm really excited to dive right into that.

[02:11:48] Corey: Yeah. Same. I'd like to kind of just hear more about your experience and kinda what clarity, um, it helps you. get, cause I put out the micro course in like December, so a handful months ago. And that was mostly just to kind of validate like, okay, do enough people give a shit about this idea of the core value to then warrant building it out into a CBC.

[02:12:07] Josh: And obviously it's validated cause you're going to do it. Yeah. That's awesome, dude. Well, man, like I said, I think it's really cool that just to see your pivot and kind of like, you're obviously a new, that's only been what a year and a half since you've been doing this. So I think this is what your first like full podcast,

[02:12:22] Corey: I've done one or two, like earlier on, but this is, I mean, especially at this time, this is the longest one, I

[02:12:29] Josh: This is awesome, dude. Well, I'm honestly, dude, I'm honored to have you on this podcast and honored to be able to have this conversation with you to connect. Um, you're one of those forces of nature, honestly. I remember seeing some of your posts and your threads early on in Twitter. That's how we first got connected, and just being like blown away. I'm like, this is fucking cool. Like the world needs more Corey Wilkes, man. They need more of what you're doing. I'm not even kidding. Like it's, you're bringing more legitimacy and you're actually helping people. Um, whereas again, we talked to this at the beginning, all these fake gurus, there's a lot of bullshit out there.

[02:12:58] Like I just can tell that there's like this, like realness to you that like, there's no bullshit. Like, I feel like if we, if you're doing a one-on-one like, you're just going to tell people how it is. You know, there's no sugarcoat anything. It's like, no bullshit. Just fucking here's what you gotta do.

[02:13:12] And I get to see you growing exponentially. Like just like online. I know you putting out a lot of content, a lot of YouTube videos. It's one of those things where it's like, it's so weird seeing you almost in this because I can see where you're going to be going, like your trajectory. And it's going to be so weird, man. I'm not saying like next Tony Robbins by any means, who knows, but fuck man, just doing what you're doing and seeing how this was a little evolve and seeing how you're taking your years of experience has just been fucking inspiring and just super cool to see man.

[02:13:41] Corey: I appreciate it. This is super fun, man. Like I'm down to come back

[02:13:44] Josh: let's do it, man. Oh man. I appreciate that so much. We should totally do it. And I've been wanting to do. Roundtable podcast. I would love to see what a three or four way podcasts would look like. I'll keep you on the poster that man that'd be really fucking

[02:13:59] Corey: Oh, you totally fucking should. That'd be awesome. Either. Like people in like similar niches or like, just like here's the topic and here, like different viewpoints of shit, dude. I'm down as

[02:14:10] Josh: Do latter be cool? What we'll know. then we'll nail down a really interesting topic that I think would work really well for this and we'll do it. That'd be fucking cool.

[02:14:18] Um, dude, before we wrap things up, I have a few like kind of like final questions for you that I'd love to kind of just like ask people. The first question is if you had a $1 billion marketing campaign you can use for paid ads, you pay fucking celebrities, you can put billboards around the world, $1 billion. What would your message say?

[02:14:40] Corey: I mean, this isn't original. Like you're going to fucking die. Right? Like I know other people have said that, but like, again, like my whole right tattoo sleeve is dedicated to the concept of momento mori. I keep a skull on my fucking like background. Like you're going to fucking die. Let that direct every fucking decision you make. Like that's it. You're going to fucking die. do what matters.

[02:15:05] Josh: Oh man. That's yeah, that's perfect. That sums up everything. Sums up everything. question for you. So what do you think is like the biggest opportunity in the coaching space or now? Because like you said, it's the wild west, super new. What is like the biggest opportunities that you've been seeing right now being immersed in this industry?

[02:15:22] Corey: the reality is a lot of people currently like to shit-talk getting a certification or credentials. Cause they all the they're not worth it. And I know some people who do a lot without those credentials. However, everybody I know who is a coach without a certification is essentially like sort of down coaching. Meaning there they were a CEO and now they're coaching other CEOs, right. Or they were some sort of industry expert with decades of experience, and now they're coaching other people in that same position. Okay. Unless that is you, you will be so much more competitive if you go through a training.

[02:16:15] And I don't even mean because you get a fucking diploma or you get some fancy letters after your name. I mean the actual skills that you will learn going through a legitimate coaching program and whatever the fuck legitimate means for you. Right. That will push you so far above and beyond all these other people. Because so many people I've worked with, they're like you have hired are the coaches. And my question is always then why aren't you still with them?

[02:16:42] Right? Like if you've hired other people, why the fuck are you talking to me? Okay. And by and large, the answer is because they couldn't help me with what I was looking for, because all they did was X, Y, Z insert bullshit things that they read on the fucking internet without any actual training.

[02:17:01] Okay. Coaching looks easy. It fucking isn't if you do it right. It looks easy. Your job is to make it look easy. Right? When you watch somebody who is a professional musician, play an instrument, it looks easy when you watch them because they make it look effortless. And then you pick up that same fucking instrument. You're like, I'm a goddamn monkey trying to figure out how to put two rocks together. Okay. That is what coaching is.

[02:17:30] But because people only ever see somebody else doing it, they think it's easy for them to just pick up and throw a fucking sign, you know, their digital real estate and get people. And you can be really good with copywriting and really good with your marketing campaign. But at the end of the day, if your product, if your service is shit, people will learn that. So the biggest. You know, sort of gap right now that you can take advantage of is by becoming, like getting real fucking training, to become the best possible coach you can be. And then every day after that actively trying to level up.

[02:18:08] I am always reading something else. After 15 years of studying psychology after getting a fucking doctorate in and then going through an actual executive coaching program, every day I'm constantly leveling up because the people I'm trying to help have no tolerance for bullshit. So I make sure I don't let bullshit in to my coaching practice.

[02:18:34] Josh: Huge. Yeah. I mean, dude, like I can already tell, like I said, from the beginning of this, like you came from it in such a legitimate way, so that's cool to see it. That's like the biggest opportunity. Like you're taking full advantage of that. It's fucking cool man, to see like where you've already grown in the last like year and like just bridging that gap.

[02:18:51] So hopefully you become, you know, a force of nature for other people, other coaches to kind of see like, Hmm, that's your competition. Legitimacy is your fucking competition, and your clients are not going to stand for anything less. Hopefully again, people get swindled all the time. That's the nature of the internet fake gurus. But I'm glad to be chatting with a real guru. Not actually, don't worry, man,

[02:19:13] Corey: We'll do it. And like, if any coaches are listening, like feel free to hit me. If you have questions or like, if you want to get into coaching, like, feel like I'm always down to help people and like answer questions. Um, and again, so either a hit me up, like through my newsletter, because you should totally, you know, subscribe to my fucking newsletter. But also if you just wanna hit me up through Twitter, DMS, like my deans are open, feel free to reach out.

[02:19:33] Josh: And uh, one more time. What's your Twitter handle?

[02:19:36] Corey: It's the same. It's Coreywilkspsyd. it's @Coreywilkspsyd. Like my name is the fucking same everywhere. So it's just, it's super simple to

[02:19:44] Josh: Perfect. I'll link all that in the description. So if anyone wants to hit you up, they will sign up for your newsletter. This has been awesome, man. Um, my final blowout question, big one for you. What are you excited about? Something that's coming up, something in near far feature. What are you super excited about?

[02:20:00] Corey: Oh dude, this fucking CBC, like I, and so fucking stoked at the potential to start a movement of intentional entrepreneurship, right? Like entrepreneurs who not only want to make a positive impact, but want to do work that is fulfilling and change the world in a positive way, and like galvanize each other and like lift each other up and just have this fucking like unstoppable, positive influence of a community.

[02:20:28] Like I am so fucking stoked about that. That's regardless of whether the first cohort fills up, or if it takes me an extra month to build it out, I don't give a fuck. Like this is the most meaningful shit that I can do in the immediate future. So this is where all of my time and attention is going. I am so fucking stoked to build this community.

[02:20:50] Josh: Dude, that's awesome. And I just love that you're embodying what you teach. So like just listening to you speak, hearing your story, seeing what you're doing. You're embodying exactly what you're doing, man. It is fucking cool to watch, so I'm super pumped for that too, man. This was such a great podcast, such a great conversation. Two and a half hours flew right by. I don't think I've been in a deeper flow state in the last like fucking month, dude. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. We'll have to do it again.

[02:21:15] Corey: Thank you. This is fucking great. I'm down to come back

[02:21:17] anytime.

[02:21:18] Josh: Take care. Everyone listening, thanks for listening to the podcast. Thank you for tuning in. Bye.

Thanks for coming this far! if you're reading this, it is no accident. The universe brought you to this corner of the internet for a reason, and you're on the right track. I already know that you're an amazing person and I can't wait to connect with you!

— Josh

Episode Transcript

Josh Gonsalves
Mind Meld Podcast Host

Hi, I'm Josh Gonsalves, the host and producer of Mind Meld. I'm also a Canadian Academy Award-nominated director and Co-founder of Contraverse, an immersive media company. I'm a multi-media experience designer living and working in Toronto, operating at the intersection of design and exponential technologies to develop solutions that change the world for the better.

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